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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:57 pm 
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Imagine the brain and skull as similar to a glass bottle completely full of jelly. You can strike the bottle hard straight against a wall but as long as the bottle does not break the jelly is protected.
However if you spin the bottle violently, or suddenly stop it from spinning then the jelly will tear and slide relative to the glass.

Question. If cycle helmets prevent brain injury, why has the incidence of brain injury remained roughly the same in a world where many more people are wearing helmets?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:04 pm 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
the bulk of cycling head impacts are with stationary objects such as the ground.


But, as you ted to fall whilst travelling at speed and I would suggest in most instances one does not land on top of ones head but in fact bashes the front / back / sides. ergo bashing front / back / sides whilst travelling is likely to introduce torque about the neck.

Which is why BMX style hardshell helmets actually offer greater protection.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:08 pm 
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Interesting. Where is the evidence to support your claim that BMX helmets provide 'greater' protection?

The scenario you describe actually applies torque at the circumference of the helmet, not the neck. One then gets into the mathematical modelling of 'twisting' as that motion is applied to the spine, and the variables there are so many I'm not sure its not something easily modelled. At least please understand the physics behind the process before relying on it to support a viewpoint.


Question - cycle helmet use is rising, but in the last 15 years there has been a large increase in the numbers of cyclists, especially in Western nations. The number of cyclists not wearing helmets is still actually rising as the the overall number of riders increases As not only the number of cyclists wearing helmets is rising, but the number of cyclists not them is also rising as the number of cyclists in both camps increases together. As the numbers of non lid wearers has also risen why should there be a drop in serious cycling head injury figures?


Last edited by Chopper1192 on Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:08 pm 
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One of these? (Torc/torque)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:17 pm 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
Interesting. Where is the evidence to support your claim that BMX helmets provide 'greater' protection?


I'm trying to find something, it's the internet so I will be able to find something to back up my unsupported accusations LOL. But essentially, being harder they don't grip into the ground (especially grippy tarmac) which causes massive deceleration & neck injuries, they slide instead hence skid lid, they tend to cover more of the head offering more protection & as a side effect of that, come off proportionally less in accidents.

Didn't you know, they protect the torso when being run over by tin boxes saving 100% of lives in accidents, every time guaranteed (unless rider dies whilst cycling which causes the accident)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:21 pm 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
Interesting. Where is the evidence to support your claim that BMX helmets provide 'greater' protection?

The scenario you describe actually applies torque at the circumference of the helmet, not the neck. One then gets into the mathematical modelling of 'twisting' as that motion is applied to the spine, and the variables there are so many I'm not sure its not something easily modelled. At least please understand the physics behind the process before relying on it to support a viewpoint.


I said something like this a long time ago and was derided. Not by chops' though.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:22 pm 
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Helmets are for people who can't ride.

There, I've said it. Bring out the torches and pitchforks. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:24 pm 
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The History Man wrote:
Given the that majority of accidents aren't fatal and not quantifiable or repeatable in a way that would compare helmet wearing with a control group or other objective test I suppose it will remain a mystery. Anecdotal evidence such as that of Gil and others on here as in OP leads me to don my lid whenever I ride.

?

Found it


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:32 pm 
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gtRTSdh wrote:
Chopper1192 wrote:
Interesting. Where is the evidence to support your claim that BMX helmets provide 'greater' protection?


I'm trying to find something, it's the internet so I will be able to find something to back up my unsupported accusations LOL. But essentially, being harder they don't grip into the ground (especially grippy tarmac) which causes massive deceleration & neck injuries, they slide instead hence skid lid, they tend to cover more of the head offering more protection & as a side effect of that, come off proportionally less in accidents.

Didn't you know, they protect the torso when being run over by tin boxes saving 100% of lives in accidents, every time guaranteed (unless rider dies whilst cycling which causes the accident)

Where is the evidence that they don't grip the ground? We're making presumptions again. Despite this oft mooted claim, and the large ventilation ports in many cycle lids, there is little actual proof that they are any more likely to grab the surface as the impact.

Covering more of the head might possibly be good in impact protection, but that's not absolute. It also has the potential to impact on visibility and hearing. To say that covering a greater surface of the head is automatically 'safer' is simply unproven.

Indeed, the word 'unproven' is quite apt as that's where it's at. There has been no large scale long term study into the issue with any degree of authority. The small scale studies are poor. They're often not objective, setting out to try and prove the researchers viewpoint. They're often not actually srudies at all, but simple reviews of figures.from differing sources who themselves are not empirical in their data.collection. in short, there is little firm evidence cycle helmets work as intended. Conversely, there is little firm evidence that they do not.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:36 pm 
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I think there might be a big one coming!


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