Retrobike Forum Index

It is currently Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:23 am

* Login   * Register * Search  * FAQ



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Terrorist or Freedom Fighter?
Terrorist 29%  29%  [ 5 ]
Freedom Fighter 41%  41%  [ 7 ]
Both 29%  29%  [ 5 ]
Neither 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 17
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:02 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:10 am
Posts: 4756
Location: Heathfield, East Sussex
Pyro Tim wrote:

I for one think that Mandela is a great man, who did amazing things for his country


Really?

What exactly?

What do people really do except what others allow them to?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:37 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider

Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:58 pm
Posts: 2362
Location: Bournemouth
As a black man in his country, he wasn't allowed to vote, or even be a free citizen. He was the figurehead of the movement that forced that system to change. He didn't do it alone, but was instrumental in making that change happen. He then went on to be the first black president that pushed through more changes granting more people freedoms. It is true that the system there is still not perfect, and a lot still needs to happen, but without him, people like him, and the pressure from the outside world, the apartheid government would still exist.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:54 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 7:13 pm
Posts: 2574
Location: The Cock Inn, Tillett, Herts
What about all the largely black, largely nothing to do with the government victims, that his organisation murdered maimed in order to try and force co-operation? For the most part it was innocent blacks that got the butt end of the ANCs military struggle. How is that the act of a freedom fighter?

He was not instrumental in the fall of apartheid. That was inevitable, utterly unsustainable, and collapsed of its own inertia, in much the same way communism in the USSR did. The ANC and Mandela had nothing to do with that, but due to their position as the dominant political force - a dominance built on ciolence against their own people, with financial, political and ideological assistance from communist Russia, keen to exert influence in such a strategically located country - and too up the mantle by default, as 4 decades of violence from the ANC had effectively suppressed any other legitimate political rivalry.

So I ask you, when they weren't beating and killing blacks to get them to toe the line, exactly what did the ANC and Mandela do to bring about the fall of apartheid?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:58 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:10 am
Posts: 4756
Location: Heathfield, East Sussex
The Apartheid Government simply outgrew itself; no different to a generation who couldn't remember what it was like to not know anything other than a Tory Government voting the self-serving Toffs back in because it was all to easy to blame the Labour Government for a Worldwide banking disaster that was actually caused by the USA!

It was outside pressure from the rest of the world (well, that portion of it that chooses to ignore the fact they oppressed their own indigenous people's!) that tipped the balance; Mandela has never been anything more than a puppet figurehead; that's why they are so afraid to let him die...

...there's never been anyone to take his place.

Edit: I seem to have said more or less exactly the same as Chopper above, except with perhaps less eloquence...

...but I do well remember the awful photo's from the time of the people from the Townships who were 'necklaced' for not toeing the ANC line quickly enough!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:43 pm 
MacRetro rider
MacRetro rider

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:16 pm
Posts: 8658
It its strange to me how if you claim the violence you carried out was for political reasons then later all is forgiven. In the Northern Ireland Assembly, Martin McGuiness and Jerry Adams, convicted IRA bombers now hold high political office. Mandella is a figurehead who spent the majority of the struggles against Apartheid locked up for the violent acts he carried out. What precisely he did to get himself elected I'm still not clear but the regime did need toppled so he was as good a President to choose as any.
Hopefully the rainbow nation can hold together into the future without major strife if only so that the best looking flag and nicest sounding national anthem can be seen and heard at many future world events :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:16 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 909
Location: London
From all the evidence I have seen he was a freedom fighter, I cannot see any reason to label him a terrorist.
As for wanting to keep him alive, there is a very big worry that South Africa will descend in to full on civil war when he dies. There are a lot of people who still hanker after the days of apartheid, young people who were just kids when Mandela was released from prison.
The hatred these mostly Afrikaans people feel toward their fellow countrymen is quite scary.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:45 pm 
MacRetro rider
MacRetro rider

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:16 pm
Posts: 8658
Hate they can do all they like but the black majority has the power now and would squash them like a tick !


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:58 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:33 pm
Posts: 11106
Location: The Home Of Mountain Biking, And All Great Things.
Try not to squash ticks whilst they are still embedded. Lots of them about right now, so a timely warning to check each other over after you have been out riding.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:59 pm 
BoTM Winner / Gold Trader
BoTM Winner / Gold Trader
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:36 am
Posts: 4715
Location: Burlington, ON Canada
Jesus was a terrorist. Just ask any Roman.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:32 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:57 pm
Posts: 4074
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
FMJ wrote:
Jesus was a terrorist. Just ask any Roman.



Actually it wasn't Jesus



Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: highlandsflyer, one-eyed_jim and 19 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

About Us

Follow Retrobike

Other cool stuff

All content © 2005-2015 Retrobike unless otherwise stated.
Cookies Policy.
bikedeals - the best bike deals in one place
FatCOGS - Fat Chance Owner's Group

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group