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 Post subject: Re: Painful knees
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:09 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:18 pm
Posts: 3798
Location: Staffordshire
Are the SPD cleats the ones that offer a little float? There are some that offer none at all! I am now a big fan of Time pedals. The only prolonged knee pain I have had since changing to them was after a mountain bike ride in winter when I stupidly wore shorts. There was a lot of waiting around and my knees suffered as a result.

Time pedals have definitely improved my knees.

It does sound as if you have an underlying condition that needs some looking at though.


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 Post subject: Re: Painful knees
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:11 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 4447
Location: Herts UK
mountainbikerjohnnyb wrote:
bought a road bike and thought this would be a good test for me, going to get the bike fitted properley and get the spds sorted


... so the 35 miles are more or less all that you have done on this bike?


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 Post subject: Re: Painful knees
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:16 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:56 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Oxfordshire
02gf74 wrote:
mountainbikerjohnnyb wrote:
bought a road bike and thought this would be a good test for me, going to get the bike fitted properley and get the spds sorted


... so the 35 miles are more or less all that you have done on this bike?


Did a 50 mile ride the other day but that was agony as well, it's had little mileage on it and ride to work and back probs done 200 miles tops on it


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 Post subject: Re: Painful knees
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:30 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:25 pm
Posts: 1787
Location: It's not easy being a dolphin.
I'm no expert, but believe most aches and pains are due to straining with a bad position. Do the obvious of checking cleat position, but the not so obvious is checking your saddle fore-aft position and Q factor. Getting a low Q-factor cleared up all my knee problems (pain from front inside) once and for all.

If you have different bikes, see if you get the same pain in the same places at similar times.


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 Post subject: Re: Painful knees
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:09 am 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:03 am
Posts: 18218
Location: Sunny Glasgow
Basically,youre getting old
Death is just around the corner :D

Similar issue with my left knee. If i push it or sometimes not even it hurts like hell. Feels like its going to give way and i have to resort to slowing down and trying to spin as much as possible.
I was thinking of some sort of support bandage thing. :? dont know a lot about them unfortunately


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 Post subject: Re: Painful knees
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:45 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:42 am
Posts: 2385
Woz wrote:
....... and Q factor. Getting a low Q-factor cleared up all my knee problems (pain from front inside) once and for all.
Getting the right q-factor is far far far more important than getting a low one.

Not much to add to that lot up there, saddle position (fore/aft/height), cleat position (fore/aft/rotation) have you used SPDs before? Mate has just had reconstructive surgery after several years of using a badly positioned cleat on one foot, never spoke to anyone about the pain until he could barely walk, thought it was normal :facepalm: . (His coach needs a good kicking, but that's another story!)
If its just started after getting on a new bike, and you ride elsewhere (mtb, for example) it should be easy to find the root cause. The recovery from the damage you've done will be what takes the time.

If you do decide to go down the root of getting fitted, get some advice as to who and go and see. A good number of bike fitters are charlatans interested in no more than taking money off you. As can be seen at sportives across the globe...... :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Painful knees
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:31 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:29 pm
Posts: 1877
Location: Somerset
are you using shimano sl spds, with the black & yellow cleats?


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 Post subject: Re: Painful knees
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:32 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 7:13 pm
Posts: 2574
Location: The Cock Inn, Tillett, Herts
The only icky knee I've suffered from riding was last year. Last summer I started to get persistent pain in there's of my right knee. After about a week of trying various things it turned out my seat height was about a cm too high - I know the best set up for me for each type of bike and set them up with a tape measure, but I'd clearly cocked this one up. Reset the height and the pain very quickly eased but still took about 3 weeks to leave me permanently.

A month of pain for a 10mm error - that how vulnerable knees are, especially if you're North of 35.


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 Post subject: Re: Painful knees
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:08 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:25 pm
Posts: 1787
Location: It's not easy being a dolphin.
mattr wrote:
Woz wrote:
....... and Q factor. Getting a low Q-factor cleared up all my knee problems (pain from front inside) once and for all.
Getting the right q-factor is far far far more important than getting a low one.


Yup, you are quite correct Sir. The MTB industry has a whole has gradually increased the Q-factor, presumably to help clearance of fatter tires and rear suspension. If you are doing low miles and spend more time freewheeling
downhill this would probably not be an issue - however if you actually pedal for a reasonable time it does have an effect. The number of bikes I see where the cranks are not even centered in the name of getting a chain line is incredible.

A road bike - designed for sitting and riding - will have a Q-factor around the 145-155mm mark. Old school MTBs are in the 165mm ball-park. FC-M730 with a short spindle is a superb crank. The crappy Dotek cranks I had that gave me problems was a whopping 180mm, and off center on the drive side. I found most MTB chainsets crept up to the 175mm mark. My own sweet spot is 155mm - 165mm where the limitation is just clearing the rear stays with the back of my foot by about 5mm. It annoys me that manufacturers rarely publish this information, and it's one damn good reason I'm sticking to square taper. Has said, it's only a few mm but it can make a difference between straining and not straining.


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 Post subject: Re: Painful knees
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:25 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:29 pm
Posts: 1877
Location: Somerset
Woz wrote:
mattr wrote:
Yup, you are quite correct Sir. The MTB industry has a whole has gradually increased the Q-factor, presumably to help clearance of fatter tires and rear suspension. If you are doing low miles and spend more time freewheeling
downhill this would probably not be an issue - however if you actually pedal for a reasonable time it does have an effect. The number of bikes I see where the cranks are not even centered in the name of getting a chain line is incredible.

A road bike - designed for sitting and riding - will have a Q-factor around the 145-155mm mark. Old school MTBs are in the 165mm ball-park. FC-M730 with a short spindle is a superb crank. The crappy Dotek cranks I had that gave me problems was a whopping 180mm, and off center on the drive side. I found most MTB chainsets crept up to the 175mm mark. My own sweet spot is 155mm - 165mm where the limitation is just clearing the rear stays with the back of my foot by about 5mm. It annoys me that manufacturers rarely publish this information, and it's one damn good reason I'm sticking to square taper. Has said, it's only a few mm but it can make a difference between straining and not straining.


I've measured all of my bikes, road bike, 2008 ultegra triple, 155ish.

M950 octalink V1, sqtp M750 (with the correct BB), octalink V? LX, first external BB LX, modern SLX & deore external BB all at 175ish.

So if it has changed, it's been for a long time.


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