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 Post subject: Re: Capital punishment
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:18 pm 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
highlandsflyer wrote:
How on earth would that work as a deterrent?

It is salient to note that the abolition of the death penalty is nothing to do with Human Rights.

It won't work a a deterrent, but it prevents re offending.

The death penalty still exists in law for treason, and arson in a naval dockyard came off the books in th late 90's, but even if it hadnt it can never be exercised because the ECHR is higher law than British statute law.

The ECHR is wonderful in protecting the human rights of people that don't respect the human rights of the innocent, and woefully impotent in protecting those morally deserving of it.


I agree the death penalty is no deterrent. Of course recidivism is effectively eliminated by killing offenders whenever we can. There are countries that choose to kill a lit of their offenders; I would hesitate to use them as examples of balanced or humane regimes.

Fact is we have had the HRA in statute for a bakers' dozen for British courts to use, where previously the ECHR was used where it fit a gap or helped move towards a goal in justice.

The HRA has such a wide application, to say it does no good is a little like saying you don't like any of the Beatles songs.


Last edited by highlandsflyer on Fri May 24, 2013 12:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital punishment
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:35 pm 
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Isaac_AG wrote:
I don't think the death sentence will ever be a deterrent, just as prison isn't, as I don't think that people who commit these atrocities are in any way normal, they are either psychologically disturbed or have been brought up in such away that they have no respect for authority and other people; either way they have a very heightened self opinion and think of themselves as invincible...

Alison


Unfortunately that is where you, and the majority of those with an opinion, are very, very wrong; which is why I condone the Media's approach in screening the video taken by the Public in the immediate aftermath.

Everyone needs to understand how ordinary, disaffected people think and feel; there are already SIX individuals currently serving prison sentences for planning exactly this kind of atrocity. This pair were know to the Authorities, having been under observation for some time; there are many, many others.

People should stop being complacent and recognise just how low our Society has sunk; it may not be Politically correct, but that doesn't stop it being very, very real!

The only shred of comfort to be taken from this awful tragedy is that the innocent victim would have known nothing of what happened to him; taken completely unawares and struck down by the car he was at the very least rendered unconscious before the attack escalated!

My absolute admiration is for the women who shielded the victims body, the woman who tried to talk the attackers down...

...and the supreme discipline of the armed (female) Police Officer in not killing both of them outright.

I would have done so without a second thought...

...it was my anger at the cowardliness of the Warrenpoint Massacre in the late 70's that prompted me to join up shortly after; now I am just filled with sadness at our Governments inability and unwillingness to do what needs to be done :|


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 Post subject: Re: Capital punishment
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:21 am 
Retro Guru
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please will someone tell me what started this thread!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Capital punishment
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 7:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:28 am
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DrJo wrote:
please will someone tell me what started this thread!!!!!


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22650578


Several people wrote:
Remote Scottish island


What if people on remote Scottish islands don't want murderers? They've got enough problems to deal with as it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Capital punishment
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:04 am 
Karma Queen / Cake Meisterin
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We_are_Stevo wrote:
Isaac_AG wrote:
I don't think the death sentence will ever be a deterrent, just as prison isn't, as I don't think that people who commit these atrocities are in any way normal, they are either psychologically disturbed or have been brought up in such away that they have no respect for authority and other people; either way they have a very heightened self opinion and think of themselves as invincible...

Alison


Unfortunately that is where you, and the majority of those with an opinion, are very, very wrong; which is why I condone the Media's approach in screening the video taken by the Public in the immediate aftermath.

Everyone needs to understand how ordinary, disaffected people think and feel; there are already SIX individuals currently serving prison sentences for planning exactly this kind of atrocity. This pair were know to the Authorities, having been under observation for some time; there are many, many others.

People should stop being complacent and recognise just how low our Society has sunk; it may not be Politically correct, but that doesn't stop it being very, very real!

The only shred of comfort to be taken from this awful tragedy is that the innocent victim would have known nothing of what happened to him; taken completely unawares and struck down by the car he was at the very least rendered unconscious before the attack escalated!

My absolute admiration is for the women who shielded the victims body, the woman who tried to talk the attackers down...

...and the supreme discipline of the armed (female) Police Officer in not killing both of them outright.

I would have done so without a second thought...

...it was my anger at the cowardliness of the Warrenpoint Massacre in the late 70's that prompted me to join up shortly after; now I am just filled with sadness at our Governments inability and unwillingness to do what needs to be done :|


I was I must say very surprised that on the first outing on that public video capture that they did not initially fuzz out the weapons he had just used on his victim.

As to being very very wrong, that's just an opinion of yours like my opinions are mine and opinions are really just that, they are neither right or wrong, our world is ruled by opinions, sometimes it makes things better when a majority opinion becomes our law and more often than not it makes things worse, it is all just trial and error. Unfortunately lives are lost while we try to work it out.

Alison


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 Post subject: Re: Capital punishment
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:40 pm 
aka Leo Swayer
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As it was an unfortunate soldier who was the victim can we not just turn the murderers over to the military police never to be seen again?
My 1st and last comment on this subject as it touches a very raw nerve :evil:


Edit# How anybody can possibly believe that someone who beheads a person and attempts to dismbowel them in a public place (or anywhere else for that matter) doesn't deserve to die a cruel and horrific death themselves is beyond my comprehension.


Last edited by Grannygrinder on Fri May 24, 2013 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital punishment
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:41 pm 
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Sorry Alison, I don't deal in 'opinions' only facts...

...I didn't intend any criticism of your 'opinion' only to correct your assumption that these evil b*stards are somehow 'disturbed'

They aren't; you can see people just like them on any street, in any major town with an ethnic population you care to mention.

These two both come from decent families, and both became disaffected, falling in with a very bad crowd as do so many young men of colour; I am not being 'politically incorrect' or the least bit 'racist' - try walking past Clapham Junction on a warm summers day and see how wrong you think I am...

...the general public and commuters just stand there and turn a blind eye to the gangs of youths who run through the crowds terrorising who they see fit, then sauntering across the road in front of the traffic giving verbal go any who challenge them!

They are a tiny minority but no-one does anything about it; all it would take would be a few like minded citizens to give them a good kicking every time they tried it and it would soon stop, but people would rather pretend it isn't happening and think about getting home in time for BGT or whatever other mind numbing tat is on the television that night... :|

Until the next riots that is!

Burying your head in the sand doesn't make the world a better place, immediate action does...

...if only!


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 Post subject: Re: Capital punishment
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:31 pm 
retrobike rider
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which ever way you look at this, the world would be far better off without this violent derranged scum.
anyone who can commit such a crime in broad daylight with on lookers, has lost any clear grip on reality.
any one who can take a life with such ferrocity doesnt deserve the life they were given.
but i'm sure the european courts will go go easy on them.


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 Post subject: Re: Capital punishment
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:07 pm 
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BobToo wrote:
Several people wrote:
Remote Scottish island


What if people on remote Scottish islands don't want murderers? They've got enough problems to deal with as it is.

I thought it went without saying it would be an uninhabited island. We have 50+ of them. In fact Ailsa Craig is tiny and up for sale right now for a mere million or so. Stick them on there and let them die a slow death. Like Alcatraz without the expense of buildings and staff. In the words of Human Resource, f**k them.

(that reference will be lost on many but Youtube is your friend).


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 Post subject: Re: Capital punishment
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 7:08 pm 
Karma Queen / Cake Meisterin
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Grannygrinder wrote:
As it was an unfortunate soldier who was the victim can we not just turn the murderers over to the military police never to be seen again?
My 1st and last comment on this subject as it touches a very raw nerve :evil:


Edit# How anybody can possibly believe that someone who beheads a person and attempts to dismbowel them in a public place (or anywhere else for that matter) doesn't deserve to die a cruel and horrific death themselves is beyond my comprehension.


It is beyond my comprehension if you hate a murder so much, however attrocious , why advocate committing the same offence? I hate the whole situation as much as you do, my son is a member of the MOD, he's a marine and I would hate anything to happen to him, I would be devastated beyond belief if anything like this did, but I don't believe we should sink to the depravity of these people just to think we've got our own back, surely we are better than that. Not to mention you'd just turn them into martyrs

Alison


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