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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:13 am 
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highlandsflyer wrote:
Once again I ask, in relation to the Westminster rabble and their promise of more powers for Scotland if we say no to independence, who on earth do you all think you are?
Her Majesty's government, presumably.

highlandsflyer wrote:
All the polling so far has indicated the people of Scotland would vote for further devolved powers if not for full independence. Why wait?
Because we don't actually want it? We'd agree to anything that isn't independence just so the fat bawbag doesn't get his way.

'Full independence'. Please Mr Barroso/Mr Rumpoy/Mrs Merkel can we join your club, please? We'll be good and quiet and do what you say, you'll hardly notice us.

You know a recent question in the Scottish Parliament was about whether they should have a resident cat? Because clearly there's nothing more pressing to deal with.

Can we have an option to disband and go back to Westminster please?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:13 am 
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Location: The Home Of Mountain Biking, And All Great Things.
velomaniac wrote:
Quote:
Scotland is a very popular place to migrate to internationally


Almost as many people migrate away from Scotland as migrate to it. Many migrants are economic from within EU and ebb and flow as economic situations dictate. International students come to our great educational institutes then leave again. The birth rates decreasing and the life expectancy is going up so the tax paying workforce are decreasing. The industries many work in are foreign owned and from outwith the EU so of course they use scotland as an EU base but post independence EU membership is not guaranteed so said industries will shift. Those industries that are home grown need to be members of trading blocks, UK membership has developed many scottish household names etc.

Tourists want to come here for two week holidays which is a good boost to the economy but how many imigrants illegal or legal if given the choice between Scotland and SE England will put us at number 1.


Image

(http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files2/s ... 198g08.gif)

"There are grounds for believing that Scotland is ‘different’ from the rest of the UK in terms of
migration patterns and in relation to public attitudes towards immigration."

"Scotland has a more tolerant view
of migration than elsewhere in the UK."

"In a reversal of historic trends, Scotland has in every year over the past decade gained more people
than it has lost through internal migration"

"Scotland has a low immigrant population compared to many other parts of the UK"

"The general public in Scotland is less opposed to immigration than is the case in many other parts
of the UK"

"Unlike the UK as a whole, Scotland
has traditionally lost more people than
it has gained from migration. Figure 1
demonstrates that over the past decade
this trend has ceased with the country
experiencing annual net gains from
migration."

"As Figure 2 shows, since 2000-1
Scotland has consistently experienced net
gains through internal migration."

"Not only is Scotland distinct in terms
of having a relatively small immigrant
population and being reliant on migration
for population growth but the Scottish public
may be less hostile to immigration than is
the case in many other parts of the UK. As
is shown in Figure 6, residents of Scotland
are less likely to identify immigration as a
key concern than residents of most other
parts of Britain. Further analysis of the
British Social Attitudes Survey (not shown
here) finds that residents of Scotland are
less likely to describe themselves as ‘very
or a little prejudiced against people from
other races’ than is the case in Great Britain
generally (24% and 30% respectively) and
are slightly less inclined to agree with the
statement that ‘ethnic minorities take jobs
away from other people in Britain’ (36%
and 39% respectively). This finding is
significant for policymakers in promoting
Scotland as being more ‘open’ towards
immigrants than elsewhere."

(http://www.esrc.ac.uk/_images/cpcbriefi ... -26550.pdf)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:09 pm 
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"Scotland has a low immigrant population compared to many other parts of the UK"


May be the key to the supposed welcoming attitude...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:14 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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Scotland is a nation, it has always been a nation and im unsure whether independence would change things a great deal. :? It may do something negative to the Scottish Identity. Maybe bad but then again it may reaffirm it. :?
Personally i'd like to see Scotland as its own country. It is one of the few remaining that are still forced to live under the yoke of England. When some of the other conquered countries fought for their independence there was much the same stories appearing in the press but the vast majority of the English population supported them(less to pay out? Thanks for your wealth :wink:) Im not seeing the same support from them :? Strange that.

I suppose it would at least shield us from the experimental policies the English Government like to test on us from time to time, poll tax etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:35 pm 
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suburbanreuben wrote:
"Scotland has a low immigrant population compared to many other parts of the UK"


May be the key to the supposed welcoming attitude...


I reckon the key to the difference is the mind set of the majority of Scots.

Socialist.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:24 am 
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I'm genuinely shocked that the unionist campaign is scraping the barrel so soon. Apparently we should remain a colony as if we vote for independence we might lose the world class service of...

...the Royal Mail!

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23112568


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:46 am 
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highlandsflyer wrote:
I reckon the key to the difference is the mind set of the majority of Scots.

Socialist.

Oh dear, that's probably why they threw me out when I was a few days old! :lol:

I'm not against independence per se, but the half arsed economics, slightly dodgy interpretation of international law, and extremely dodgy interpretation of maritime political and national boundaries espoused by Salmond are little short of a joke.

I might be interested if the movement was fronted by someone with a financial survival plan for when the golden goose has been cut loose that doesn't defy the laws of mathematics or man.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:18 pm 
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Gosh.

The Golden Goose?

Really?

I happen to have a lot of respect for Alex Salmond, as do most of my compatriots. He has led a minority then majority government very effectively and promoted Scotland internationally. That is the general view here.

This constant diatribe suggesting Scotland could not go it alone, regardless of whether we want to or not, has been largely undermined by facts presented by experts with no vested interests.

I would rather listen to those voices than the patronising, sneering polemic of Westminster's nay sayers and those who are taken in by their bunkum or use it to justify their anti Scots sentiment.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:26 pm 
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I'm not suggesting Scotland could not go it alone.

I am suggesting Salmond wouldn't be able to engineer it successfully. Indeed, I'd wager a friendly tenner to charity that the majority of voting Scots feel the same way and deny him the opportunity at the referendum.

Salmond says they'd be automatically part of the EU, because they would be applying while still inside it. Really? The EU say an independent Scotland would need to apply from scratch.

He rant on about 'Scotish' oil. Really? A third.of it is in English territorial waters, but Salmond chooses to ignore international conventions on national maritime entitlements and instead chooses to draw a horizontal line on the map across the North Sea, starting at the Scotish border. That's not how it works. The border continues into the sea at the angle it meets the coastline. And who does he think is going to do it out the sea bed if the Americans and British don't?

And he'd jolly well like to keep Sterling. Shame the Bank of England has said he can't, yet he still has to come up with a viable alternative.

He's undoubtedly charismatic and persuasive, but his grasp of Scotland's role in international affairs is massively flawed. He's a local politician trying to play on the World stage, but the rest of the World aren't very impressed. Every time he says "we'll do such and such with this country, that international organisation, this national department" the body in question almost always responds "erm, we don't think so". The Bank of England, The EU, NATO, and not an insignificant number of large companies all say "No Mr Salmond - you can not automatically join our organisation. You start at the bottom like anyone else".

The biggest impediment to Scotish independence will be Salmond himself, and the voters will tell him so next year beyond almost any shadow of a doubt.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:48 pm 
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It doesn't need major engineering.

We have the infrastructure largely in place already, physically, economically, socially, etc.

It would not rest on one individual. However Salmond is widely regarded as a very capable politician, not just here. I don't understand anyone objectively suggesting otherwise. He would be the man to take us through the process.

Moot anyway, as it is not going to happen! We are SNP and even we don't see it.

There is one thing I would like to have changed. The single question.

Devo-max would have had majority support. I would have been happy with that until we see how the EU/UK issue plays out, and most I know would be also. It would afford us the tools we need to keep growing as we have been.

Scaremongering about the Royal Mail, currency and mobile phone calls is ridiculous really, these things can all be sorted out.

Devolution and independence are processes, things can be tweaked as necessary as they run.


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