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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:05 am 
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When the paper was published it was accompanied by an editorial saying that the data were insufficient, the trail methodology was flawed and no conclusions could be drawn. It was published as a theory, rather like phlogistem or created antiquity.

My kids had the MMR as did all my medical colleagues kids. The big fear is of Guillain–Barré syndrome ........

Shaun


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:22 am 
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Midlife wrote:
When the paper was published it was accompanied by an editorial saying that the data were insufficient, the trail methodology was flawed and no conclusions could be drawn. It was published as a theory, rather like phlogistem or created antiquity.

My kids had the MMR as did all my medical colleagues kids. The big fear is of Guillain–Barré syndrome ........

Shaun


At the time, the lay general public were subject to some scientific suggestion that there was a risk, and a similar voice of detraction. It took time for this to be truly and comprehensively debunked, the general public had a reason to have at least some doubt for a period, because they're not sufficiently exposed or experienced, given what was said at first, to be able to rule out the suggested risk, until there was a fair bit more of comprehensive investigation.

Personally I wasn’t convinced of a risk, either, but at the time of my first child being due immunisation, I had the option of spending money on a private solution, that had marginally more risk, because it wasn't all done in one appointment, doing nothing, or going with the combined. I went privately with separate injections, but a year or two later, when much more information had been disseminated had a combined booster.

With hindsight, I don't regret any of it - yes, it cost money, and there was slightly longer exposure until all three jabs were done in the first round, and I'll accept, knowing what I know now, there was no true need, but I didn't duck my children being immunised, I perhaps just spent time and money on the first round of jabs that I didn't need to spend. I think given what I knew and could be sure of at the time, that I did the right thing.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:01 pm 
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Neil wrote:
Chopper1192 wrote:
There's zero medical evidence that the mmr presented any risk. It was the press giving column inches to crackpots and housewives, free to spout their claims with no scientific basis that created this situation.


That's just naive and reactionary the situation wasn't just created by vociferous nutjobs, there was something of a dodgy study, that truly was debunked in time, but at first there was at least some doubt - middle England housewives didn't cause the panic, they reacted to something from the medical scientific community that they couldn't have been expected to dismiss out of hand at the outset.

The "study", which isn't really what it was, from one lone scientist with no qualifications in the field he was writin about, was debunked virtually immediately byte scientific community, within days in fact.

Unfortunately, the common sense diaplayed by the legitimate axientidic commuting was ignored for years by the press fanning the flames by fixing credence to crackpots. The typical article would ne about how a mum somewhere would arriviste their child's autism/whatever condition they suffer to the MMR jab. No science. Not even a statistical analysis of the numbers making such claims. Just the regurgitation of claims made by individual parents around the country

Such was the attention the press continued to give to the matter long, long after the scientific community had set the record straight, that even today more than a decade on those of low intelligence would rather believe unsubstantiated claims made in the press than the word of credible scientists. And now people are starting to die because of this utter idiocy.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:17 pm 
eBay Outing Master
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The trouble with these is that like speed cameras it only works if people play by the rules

nationaly we monitor tb and aids and largely we seem to have an idea on both...certianly in regards to tb we have had programmes which saw it drop

However in my daughters town there has been a rise in hiv and nationaly we have a rise in tb again..the problems have come back largely through an influx of people from countries that do not have tb programmes and good sex education. In my old town of Wisbech the tb was rising again mostly due to eastern europeans and in my daughters town of harlow it's largely africans.

The problem doesn't seem to be what we do but more who are we allowing in and what precautions do we take to ensure they have acertian safe levels of health. I know when I was in the states and got married, to start the process I had to have an extensive medical, tb, syphliss etc and could not progress further along till that medical..Perhaps we need to adopt screening more vigorously to those coming in before we role out another programme that will be just waisted money?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:25 pm 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
Neil wrote:
Chopper1192 wrote:
There's zero medical evidence that the mmr presented any risk. It was the press giving column inches to crackpots and housewives, free to spout their claims with no scientific basis that created this situation.


That's just naive and reactionary the situation wasn't just created by vociferous nutjobs, there was something of a dodgy study, that truly was debunked in time, but at first there was at least some doubt - middle England housewives didn't cause the panic, they reacted to something from the medical scientific community that they couldn't have been expected to dismiss out of hand at the outset.

The "study", which isn't really what it was, from one lone scientist with no qualifications in the field he was writin about, was debunked virtually immediately byte scientific community, within days in fact.

Unfortunately, the common sense diaplayed by the legitimate axientidic commuting was ignored for years by the press fanning the flames by fixing credence to crackpots. The typical article would ne about how a mum somewhere would arriviste their child's autism/whatever condition they suffer to the MMR jab. No science. Not even a statistical analysis of the numbers making such claims. Just the regurgitation of claims made by individual parents around the country

Such was the attention the press continued to give to the matter long, long after the scientific community had set the record straight, that even today more than a decade on those of low intelligence would rather believe unsubstantiated claims made in the press than the word of credible scientists. And now people are starting to die because of this utter idiocy.


You're being overly judgemental with the full benefit of hindsight.

I know what was going on in these times, since I faced the decision in these times.

For the average person, they had a "scientist" / doctor who'd made some claims given a study, and some other scientists, disputing it. Given the suggested - albeit most likely bogus - risk, was autism, it's no wonder the average person in the street was worried.

Personally, I tried to cover all bases, when time had moved on, and things become much more established, I then went with the combined.

That people, en masse, were naive and reactionary, is hardly to be unexpected - people, on the whole, are idiots. But judging them on the basis that they should have known better? Well the average person in the street knows nothing about the scientific process, nor has any reason to trust one particular "expert" over another. My responsibility was to my child, so I took care of business - my first child had separate injections for M M & R - and I still look back and don't regret taking that decision, taken at the time as it was.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:26 pm 
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sylus wrote:
The trouble with these is that like speed cameras it only works if people play by the rules

nationaly we monitor tb and aids and largely we seem to have an idea on both...certianly in regards to tb we have had programmes which saw it drop

However in my daughters town there has been a rise in hiv and nationaly we have a rise in tb again..the problems have come back largely through an influx of people from countries that do not have tb programmes and good sex education. In my old town of Wisbech the tb was rising again mostly due to eastern europeans and in my daughters town of harlow it's largely africans.

The problem doesn't seem to be what we do but more who are we allowing in and what precautions do we take to ensure they have acertian safe levels of health. I know when I was in the states and got married, to start the process I had to have an extensive medical, tb, syphliss etc and could not progress further along till that medical..Perhaps we need to adopt screening more vigorously to those coming in before we role out another programme that will be just waisted money?


I'm really not connecting the dots between immigration and routine immunisation.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:04 pm 
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I'll explain clearer if I can

when we spend shedloads on immunisation programmes but then we have mass influxes from countries that do not then you always have to question what next


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:37 pm 
aka Leo Swayer
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:15 pm
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Location: Wales.UK
Midlife wrote:
When the paper was published it was accompanied by an editorial saying that the data were insufficient, the trail methodology was flawed and no conclusions could be drawn. It was published as a theory, rather like phlogistem or created antiquity.

My kids had the MMR as did all my medical colleagues kids. The big fear is of Guillain–Barré syndrome ........

Shaun

Now you tell me :roll: :D
Whats this Guillain-Barre syndrome then? Common?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 10:41 am
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Its not so much that parents decided not to let their kids have the MMR jab at the time of the media hysteria that shocks me. Its more that once it was proved to be safe that none of the parents thought to take their kids to the doctors to get it done. Is the Swansea situation a nationwide one so there's basically a whole generation of kids at risk?


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