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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:49 pm 
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Pyro Tim wrote:
Margaret Thatcher was the most divisive and polarising politic leader of the last century. This is an incomplete list of why many of us fall on the side that does not regard her with anything other than odium…

1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation


^ Well said.



unfortunately... :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:32 pm 
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Pyro Tim wrote:
bla bla bla
Nice copy and paste. Shame it's mostly utter pish.

Pyro Tim wrote:
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
Bullshit. We produce more now than ever. Productivity has improved so we need fewer people to do it, but to say we don't manufacture is pish.
Pyro Tim wrote:
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
I remember the shitty warm milk in wee cartons. My parents provided nice cold milk from glass bottles at home. Is it up to schools or parents to feed children? Did Labour reintroduce the precious milk?
Pyro Tim wrote:
10. The poll tax
Was an inherently fairer system than the council tax, implemented poorly.
Pyro Tim wrote:
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines
Wilson closed more pits in the 60s than Thatcher did. Not that it fits with your agenda.
Pyro Tim wrote:
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
The vast majority were quite happy for the twenty plus years in the interim when they had a few quid (or felt they did).
Pyro Tim wrote:
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
??? So fnck. She won three general elections in a row. That's the only rating that matters.
Pyro Tim wrote:
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
So?
Pyro Tim wrote:
31. BSE
Was clearly her fault. Obviously.
Pyro Tim wrote:
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
Check your facts. Poverty fell. The minimum wage costs jobs, as we are seeing now. Great in the so called boom time, not so great now.

I haven't addressed every point as a) I don't have time and b) you didn't come up with them yourself in the first place.

I understand some people lost out badly at the time. What I also understand is that their failure to get over it and make something of themselves in the thirty years since is the primary motivation for their bitterness. Thatcher is a convenient scapegoat for their own failings.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:41 pm 
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How can you say she had nothing to do with BSE?

She was a mad cow!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:32 pm 
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technodup wrote:
I haven't addressed every point as a) I don't have time and b) you didn't come up with them yourself in the first place.


And here's me thinking it was because you agreed with them. Then I read the next bit where you lose the plot completely.

technodup wrote:
I understand some people lost out badly at the time. What I also understand is that their failure to get over it and make something of themselves in the thirty years since is the primary motivation for their bitterness. Thatcher is a convenient scapegoat for their own failings.


I'm not normally rude on Retrobike - but this is worthy of fnuking Marin Man.

So you're big on generalisations then? Suppose someone has to be....

As for your views on minimum wage.... LOW WAGES cost jobs too - retail is driven by people having cash to spend you great nana. Be very careful what you wish for - look at the state of things in the USA where workers need food stamps. What's wrong is corporate greed. Period.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:54 pm 
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Dbmtb!

You took the words right out of my mouth! It must have been while you were kissing me.

Denmark.

Great working conditions.

High taxes, but they go for something!

Excellent training for all, reflected in high minimum wages making work rewarding and highly motivated.

Great welfare, rewarding what you put in and covering those in need.

Thatcher would have hated it!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:36 pm 
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Not quite as simple as that HF. There are cutbacks here too. But the Danish economy has weathered the recession far better then the British one did - even though like everywhere else in Europe we are plagued by greedy tax-evading multinationals, companies that outsource to the Far East but don't pass on the saving to the end user - it just goes into an offshore account, dodgy agencies exploiting Eastern Europeans and the usual nonsense that is symptomatic of companies failing to have any sense of social responsibility whatsoever.

But the higher wages and stronger safety nets meant that society is coming through it relatively unscathed.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:05 am 
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Denmark’s population is 1/10 of the UKs, that alone makes a comparison pointless imo.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:14 am 
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There are plenty of other factors that make the comparison pointless. HF just gets nostalgic of his old life here sometimes, that's all 8D.

You should see the way ingratiate expats rant about life in Denmark (google - copenhagen post) - you'd think it was a crap place to live.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:34 am 
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Pointless?

That certainly marks it out from the rest of the posts on here!

Denmark has one tenth of the population of the UK?

I thought there was no point in comparing the two?

Systems of government, education, welfare, industry are all scalable.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:01 am 
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Quote:
I haven't addressed every point as a) I don't have time and b) you didn't come up with them yourself in the first place.

I understand some people lost out badly at the time. What I also understand is that their failure to get over it and make something of themselves in the thirty years since is the primary motivation for their bitterness. Thatcher is a convenient scapegoat for their own failings.


Walk into a mining community and explain to a young adult why there was no food on the table when he/she was a kid and Hatchet was in power and I'm sure they will understand.


It must be great view from your ivory tower? :roll:


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