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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:06 am 
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Neil wrote:
theproudhighway wrote:
I can't help career wise, as I'm struggling with the same thing as you.

Sleep wise, I'm somewhat an expert. have you tried a Zinc supplement? Really does wonders for me to achieve a deep, all-night sleep.

Being sleep deprived only makes things that are on our minds even worse. A good nights sleep does wonders.

I've had trouble with insomnia for so long I've been thinking of starting up a luxury soap business.

There's loads of obvious advice, routines, keep the bedroom dark, back off the caffeine late afternoon. Supplements (zinc, magnesium, almost aping the ZMA thing, 5-HTP). Mild / OTC sedatives / hypnotics (the usual fair of largely relaxant / anti-histamine based ones). The things I've often read about, in commentary for others, that have greatly helped them, in my inferred increasing order of effectiveness: zinc, magnesium, 5-HTP, melatonin.

Personally, I'm not looking for something to make me drowsy and put me to sleep - or leave me feeling drowsy or "hung over" in the morning. Ideal, for me, would be something that either helps me maintain sleep for longer than I normally get, or helps me then fall asleep again, once woken.

I've recently started using melatonin, and have to say I'm very positive about it - it's not perfect, but does seem to be helping (my issue isn't really getting off to sleep, more waking up then not being able to get back to sleep). On the plus side, seems to be something that has several all-round benefits and seemingly precious little in the way of side-effects or issues; on the minus side, it's prescription only in the UK - but available comprehensively in the US. The version available as a prescribed med in the UK, is 2mg sustained release - the amount, I'd say, is about spot on, sustained release probably no bad thing.

To be clear, that's not me advocating people suffering with insomnia to rush out and procure melatonin, just pointing out that after trying many approaches and supplements (but never going so far as prescribed drugs for the matter - I just don't want to get involved with serious sedatives / hypnotics - 'cos let's face it, entertaining they may be, but they all come across as a bit weird - and how's that for one of those subtle, obscure, tentative, fast and loose puns, that don't get made every day, eh?), I've read about countless things people have used, and tried many, and have personally found melatonin helpful for me. Reading / research, plus consultation with your GP is always the best way, anyways.

Truth be told, that's something I've often found quite odd, really - US society seems to be, officially at least, very risk-averse, and along with that, FDA regulation, plus the official rules about off-label usage of certain drugs / meds - yet there's some cases where they allow sale and use of various things that are prescription only in the UK, despite the UK not having anything so organised or central as the FDA.




Very comprehensive advice, Neil, or should I call you Tyler? As an Insomnia sufferer too I've experimented with all of the above. Melatonin didn't work for me, Diphenhydramine left me feeling spacey the next day. My problem is double edged, I find it difficult to get to sleep and stay asleep once I do nod off. Zinc doesn't help with the getting to sleep, but I find it does help me to stay asleep once I nod off. Plenty of exercise, cut off caffeine at 2pm, drink lots of water, no heavy meals late at night and nothing too stimulating an hour before bed seem to be working for me just recently. Then again the dreaded sleeplessness could strike at anytime.

A few years back the Doctor prescribed me Zopiclone, after I hadn't slept for 4 days. What a trip that shit is. Knocks you out cold. Not for long term use though and not solving anything in the long-run. Education is the key!

A good Indica used to help me sleep, but I gave up smoking years ago.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:09 am 
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I normally find light exercise like a 20 minute walk a few hours before bed time followed by a warm bath relaxes me enough to take my mind off the daily issues that used to keep my mind and me awake...Distracting the mind seems to be the biggest challenge with sleep depravation


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:43 pm 
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http://him.uk.msn.com/health-and-fitnes ... ghts-sleep


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:31 pm 
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google a book called the elephant an the twig by geoff Thompson


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:35 pm 
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if you want to sleep, imagine the blood at the crown of your head slowly running down to your toes.

As the blood passes through each muscle, you will feel the muscles relaxing and feel a draining almost in a few mins you'll be asleep.

When you master it, you will be asleep before the sensation hits your toezzzzz...

No drugs needed. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:47 pm 
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dan28 wrote:
google a book called the elephant an the twig by geoff Thompson


That guy is one of my hero's, one of his books literally saved me.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:01 pm 
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Location: The Home Of Mountain Biking, And All Great Things.
I find reading an actual book and arguing with the wife about when I am going to turn the light off is inferior to taking the dogs out a wee walk.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:13 pm 
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scottmac wrote:
if you want to sleep, imagine the blood at the crown of your head slowly running down to your toes.

As the blood passes through each muscle, you will feel the muscles relaxing and feel a draining almost in a few mins you'll be asleep.

When you master it, you will be asleep before the sensation hits your toezzzzz...

No drugs needed. :wink:


Would that it were, would that it were...

I think insomnia - quite possibly similar to things like clinical depression (I know people who suffer from this, but never have personally - which is why I use it as context) - can only truly be empathised by having endured it. In my experience, people who've suffered from insomnia have tried countless different things, relaxation techniques, bedtime routines, avoidance of certain foods / drinks, vitamins, minerals, supplements, reading, not reading, counting sheep.

Personally, I've researched it, read books, scoured the internet, tried many, many things to try and help, and nothing has ever truly beaten it. Melatonin seems to be helping, but isn't a silver bullet.

It truly is not that simple - and I wish it were. But even my situation isn't as bad as some - my main issue is sleep after I've woken up in the middle of the night, most of the time I fall asleep, initially, within a reasonable timeframe, unless my mind is truly occupied.

Some of it will be the divergence of the problem, but also sometimes recognition that it can have multiple factors - probably some psychological, some physical, and some environmental.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:01 pm 
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It takes me between and hour and an hour and a half to get to sleep, every night, no matter how tired I am, sometimes longer. However, I then usually sleep through the night, and have trouble wakening. It's been the same for as long as I can remember. The alarm can go off ten times, I hit snooze and sleep through. It takes excessive effort to get up. The only time this doesn't happen, is if I have a skin full. Then I sleep badly, awaken early and can't get back to sleep, and feel shit all day.

I won't take drugs to sleep, they make waking up even worse.

I'm not depressed at the moment, although I haven't had a job since September, but I have been in dark places before. I found the drugs doctors prescribe for depression to have too bad side effects on me to handle, so I stopped taking them 2 weeks after starting. Counseling helped, as did exercise, but most of it was hard work. This was me though, and everyone is different.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:51 am 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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LGF

To qualify this post, I have unbelievably chirpy outlook on life and whatever my problems, believe something is just around the corner that will sort things out. So apologies if this post comes across as twee.

If you are sitting at the bottom, there is no shame in that. All of us will sit there at one specific moment in our lives...

All I can say is just try to break the mould/change the record in tiny incremental steps (rungs if you like).

Do something today, that you wouldn't have done had you not read this post. Have a pedal round the local tips, you never know you might find something even better than that pro walkman.. If you don't what have you lost, your only still at the bottom...

Have you thought about moving your location, of course I don't know your personal circumstances, but maybe the Alconbury massive is getting a little jaded! (apologies, of course, to said massive!). Come up North - it's great! You might find it easier to float your business up here also.. I think you need to find a way to make that work, as on here you don't come across as the sort of guy who "likes working for the man".

As I say, just my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less... but I have taken the time to do this, as I have enjoyed your ramblings over the years! Also, that you did me a great deal on a rear 700c Road wheel! :-)


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