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 Post subject: Re: Beer economics...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:15 am 
Special Retro Guru
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Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:34 am
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Location: Don't mess with monkeys, man
Easy_Rider wrote:
Jeez Neil, did I say they were propping anything up? Yes there are over 11,000 people earning £1million or a lot more, i would be interested to know just how much they did contribute as a percentage of total revenues but i think you're just making an argument for yourself to try to say I think they are propping the system up.

<shrug> you specifically raised the mil + earners, I just questioned the veracity of that. You mentioned an average household having to pay tax for around 50 years to balance that. Problem is, that's an unrealistic proposition on a few grounds. Realistically how many people earn the same amount for 50 years, so more realistic to compare them on ratio grounds.

How many "average" 40k households per mil+ earner. And what proportion of income are these mil+ earners actually paying in taxation - because I think the assumptions of PAYE proportions are somewhat unlikely.

Easy_Rider wrote:
My point is there are fewer net contributors than receivers, and some may be surprised to learn they are not net contributors despite earning a good income and not claiming benefits, it's a point of interest. That is all, thank you and good night.

That there is some shift is not without any kind of predictability, and is somewhat influenced by apolitical factors. All the same, it's rather far from the oversimplification of the beer analogy, and best keep the high earners sweet and hope and pray that they continue with their magnanimous tolerance of personal taxation levels.

The fish were a courtesy.


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 Post subject: Re: Beer economics...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 7:11 pm
Posts: 8479
Location: Fircombe.
rosstheboss wrote:
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible."


This... :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Beer economics...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:30 pm 
Pumpy's Bear
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Location: Hereford
Easy_Rider wrote:
Average cost of educating one child in a state school as far as I can find out is £9000/yr.


That sounds very high compared to the AWPU for KS1/2 and KS3/4 although I appreciate that school funding is much more complicated than just AWPU. I understand that in itself it's not relevant to the broader point you are making, but do you have a source for the £9k?


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 Post subject: Re: Beer economics...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:21 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:47 am
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Location: belgium
This was a good read. The little story is an interesting anecdote, but I wouldn't base my worldview on it. Taxes always weigh down the most on the middle class. The richest often pay little. The middle class and upper middle class pay for all. The poor receive.


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 Post subject: Re: Beer economics...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Location: Somerset
Grannygrinder wrote:
Pretty sure there is a seperate tax for the roads, i think it is called Road Fund licence.


Nope, it's called Vehicle Excise Duty & the reason for that is that according to the EU it is not legal for funds created from a tax with a name that indicates something i.e. Road Fund licence to be redistributed elsewhere. Whilst they're not tracing each £1, the ammount raised by the old Road Fund licence exceeded the ammount spent on our roads & hence the name was changed to indicate a charge just for being allowed to use the roads.

Bram J wrote:
This was a good read. The little story is an interesting anecdote, but I wouldn't base my worldview on it. Taxes always weigh down the most on the middle class. The richest often pay little. The middle class and upper middle class pay for all. The poor receive.


So to sum up, the government = Robin Hood, stealing from the rich & giving to the poor


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 Post subject: Re: Beer economics...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 909
Location: London
If I stopped paying tax and paid for the services I use on their own of course I would have more money in my pocket. In that scenario I wouldn't need Civil Servants, a welfare state or a military. Those three things account for the vast majority of our taxes.

As for the rich running away to foreign lands, as others have said, it's not them paying the high tax. It's the managers earning £40k £50k £60k that are paying the majority of tax in this country.


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 Post subject: Re: Beer economics...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 909
Location: London
The Road Fund Licence, or Vehicle Excise Duty or Road Tax or whatever you want to call it is just another tax like all the others that goes to the big tax pot in HM Treasury. It's Council Tax that pay's for the upkeep of the roads.


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 Post subject: Re: Beer economics...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:58 pm 
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yagamuffin wrote:
The Road Fund Licence, or Vehicle Excise Duty or Road Tax or whatever you want to call it is just another tax like all the others that goes to the big tax pot in HM Treasury. It's Council Tax that pay's for the upkeep of the roads.


I like to call it VED, because that's what it's called :)

It hasn't been "road tax" since 1937.


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 Post subject: Re: Beer economics...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:47 am
Posts: 466
Location: belgium
gtRTSdh wrote:
So to sum up, the government = Robin Hood, stealing from the rich & giving to the poor


More like a cowardly Robin Hood, stealing from Mr and Mrs average to give to the poor. Not daring to bother the richest, with which this 'Robin Hood' is rather friendly.


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