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 Post subject: Re: Gay Marriage
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:31 pm 
Special Retro Guru
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sylus wrote:
what you will have done is removed the rights of those who through faith have had that belief taken away

How?

How is allowing same-sex couples to get married, removing anybody elses' rights?

And how on EARTH is it taking away anybodys' beliefs?

Were it imposing on certain religious groups to perform ceremonies for same-sex marriages, then I'd be more sympathetic - and perhaps that assault will truly follow - but at present, merely legal recognition, is just about equality.

Affecting other peoples' rights or beliefs is a big crock - as proposed at least, it's doing no such thing.

If people, either individually, or collectively, wish to believe the moon is made of cheese, they are free to. If the scientific community provides true proof that it's not made of cheese, that doesn't remove anybodys' rights or beliefs to continue believing the moon is made of cheese - it may just make them look a bit stupid.


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 Post subject: Re: Gay Marriage
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:36 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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My wife is bi-sexua(true)l........so she could have just as easily married a female........i'm all for tri-marriages if one partner is bi-sexual :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Gay Marriage
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:39 pm 
Karma Queen / Cake Meisterin
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sylus wrote:
So it's the church's fault other countries won't accept visa applications as a couple..damm church does everything wrong

Alison it is very much not an equality thing. most of the church of England do not approve same sex partnerships being recognised as the term marriage but if it does happen.. how many same sex marriages will take place? I'm guessing not very many in relation to the amount of marrriages that take place

so what is being promoted is "yay we should all be equal" but to do so will trample over the rights of the many for wants of the few. So where some say equality... what you will have done is removed the rights of those who through faith have had that belief taken away

equality is never equal, where it has swung is that the majority used to decide but we seem to now listen to the vocal minority than the silent majority because when the silent majority do speak..they are told they are being homophobic/racist/ageist/sexist etc


I think you'll find that the same percentage of the gay community will want marriage as much as the same percentage of the straight community do. they don't have a different mindset because they have a different sexuality from you and me, although I did have a girl crush once :)

Alison


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 Post subject: Re: Gay Marriage
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:44 pm 
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Animals display other sexual behaviors to each other, it's well documented with some same sex mates( no off spring though) but they have bonded..........we're animals too..........tis all natural.....ie deriving from nature. And we all originated from Africa so there !


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 Post subject: Re: Gay Marriage
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:50 pm 
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Neil wrote:
sylus wrote:
what you will have done is removed the rights of those who through faith have had that belief taken away

How?

How is allowing same-sex couples to get married, removing anybody elses' rights?

And how on EARTH is it taking away anybodys' beliefs?


very simply

we are agreed that the church of England and Rome does not agree with same sex marriage yes? within that belief you have billions of people also agreeing with that non sex marriage message

if you then force same sex unions through "marriage" you will have taken that away. it is a simplicity that isn't true that the church will be forced to remove this belief and here is why

we live in a culture of silly suing..so say the state recognises civil unions as "marriage" you can with almost certian positivity then see groups like stonewall try and sue the church for breaking the law for refusing to recognise a legal status..you know this is almost a real possibility

what do you think what happen next?


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 Post subject: Re: Gay Marriage
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:59 pm 
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sylus wrote:
What do you think what happen next?



Well, weddings will probably be a lot more fabulous darling. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Gay Marriage
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:02 pm 
Special Retro Guru
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sylus wrote:
Neil wrote:
sylus wrote:
what you will have done is removed the rights of those who through faith have had that belief taken away

How?

How is allowing same-sex couples to get married, removing anybody elses' rights?

And how on EARTH is it taking away anybodys' beliefs?


very simply

we are agreed that the church of England and Rome does not agree with same sex marriage yes? within that belief you have billions of people also agreeing with that non sex marriage message

if you then force same sex unions through "marriage" you will have taken that away. it is a simplicity that isn't true that the church will be forced to remove this belief and here is why

we live in a culture of silly suing..so say the state recognises civil unions as "marriage" you can with almost certian positivity then see groups like stonewall try and sue the church for breaking the law for refusing to recognise a legal status..you know this is almost a real possibility

what do you think what happen next?

What an implausibly weak argument.

Legal recognition and equality, does not make the CofE or the Roman Catholic church, or any other religion have to change their belief, or that of their respective congregations. They are still free to believe whatever they want. In fact anybody is still free to believe in whatever they want, be it bat-shit-crazy or otherwise.

Allowing same-sex marriage doesn't change that, doesn't remove beliefs, nor does it remove rights.

If you want to argue that the consequences may - then argue that point should the consequences arise, but as is, that's just practically the weakest thin-edge-of-the-wedge argument I've ever heard.

I'll repeat this, since it's most apposite:-
Neil wrote:
If people, either individually, or collectively, wish to believe the moon is made of cheese, they are free to. If the scientific community provides true proof that it's not made of cheese, that doesn't remove anybodys' rights or beliefs to continue believing the moon is made of cheese - it may just make them look a bit stupid.


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 Post subject: Re: Gay Marriage
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:03 pm 
eBay Outing Master
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti gay anything I am however rather pissed at the way society allows the tail to wag the dog with the benefit of the few seemingly more important of the benefit of the many


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 Post subject: Re: Gay Marriage
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:08 pm 
Special Retro Guru
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sylus wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti gay anything I am however rather pissed at the way society allows the tail to wag the dog with the benefit of the few seemingly more important of the benefit of the many

Whether or not, same-sex marriage being recognised by law isn't imposing on anybody, anything beyond any other equality that is backed-up by legislation.

That's the canard in all of this - that legal recognition automatically imposes on anybody, or removes rights or removes beliefs. In of itself, it does no such thing.

If it ever does get imposed on objecting religious groups, or anybody else, then argue that point if / when that ever occurs, but legal recognition does no such thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Gay Marriage
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:10 pm 
Karma Queen / Cake Meisterin
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Sometimes the few have just as much right to exist in whatever capacity they wish to do so as the many, and just being in the majority does not give anyone the right to refuse them.

Alison


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