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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:24 pm 
Retro Guru
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careful now wrote:
Problems like the common cold and herpes haven't been overcome so far Einstein.

I'd rather have cheaper gas bills than a cure for herpes.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:26 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Location: No brakes? Way to commit soldier.
sylus wrote:
...it would be interesting to see where they think the additional water will come from to source such a huge scale of fracking.


Erm... The sea?

Isn't Blackpool one of the main sites this is being considered?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:08 am
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Location: French Alps/Annecy
technodup wrote:
sylus wrote:
most big companies have a proven history of registering the profit off shore to avoid dividends and taxes

Makes me wonder why businesses, pension funds and individuals invest in shares of these big companies.

sylus wrote:
if you genuinely think only tree huggers will protest this despite nations outlawing it then I suggest your research could do with some better looking

The only people who will protest are environmentalists and NIMBYs. Nobody else will care one way or the other. And protesting these days is largely pointless anyway, see Iraq, foxhunting etc. I saw a Starbucks protest in Glasgow last week- it was embarrassing. More Police (about 10) than protestors and Starbucks was full the whole time. People might have an opinion if asked but that's a world away from active participatory protest.

I won't be researching anything. I couldn't really care less about it. It makes sense to me, not to you, the government is open to it. It'll happen or not happen but either way I'll have absolutely no say in it. Me reading on why France has banned it and America won't make my life any better.

sylus wrote:
This will be company profit driven

You say that likes it's a bad thing.

B77 wrote:
The risks that are well known (at least they are it seems everywhere other than the UK, a proposal for shale gas mining in France was totally discounted recently) polluted water table etc are outweighed by the money/jobs/greed aspect ? Interesting way to look at it.

If there are vast untapped resources under our feet then any government should do everything it can to exploit them to the fullest extent. There are dangers and drawbacks with all sources or energy. We regulate and control those risks and benefit from oil and nuclear, what's the difference here?

B77 wrote:
Don't forget that this is also a finite source of energy unlike wind, wave and solar which would, if the gov lauded and gave incentives to would also create thousands of jobs

Aye, if it lasts for 60 years it might be long enough to get a green supply that can meet our needs.

B77 wrote:
far less damage to the environment.

Meh.

I feel like the panto villain on this site.




And with attiudes like that it's no wonder that the british public get repeatedly shat on by employers, government, banks, health service etc......jesus

'I can't change anything' what a piss poor argument.

Russell wrote:
sylus wrote:
...it would be interesting to see where they think the additional water will come from to source such a huge scale of fracking.


Erm... The sea?

Isn't Blackpool one of the main sites this is being considered?


I could be wrong but I'm don't think salt water can be used because of some sort of bonding thing with the gas.


Last edited by B77 on Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:39 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:27 pm
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It's your future (and your kids's).


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:03 am 
eBay Outing Master
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salt water is not generally used due to the salt damaging equipment (don't worry about the enviroment or the people near it) it can be used as long as they use salt/saline purification processors which of course adds to the cost and reduces the profit

perhaps this may help..Total, a recognised oil company

and when you have read it, pay particular attention to the uk reference at the bottom of the page

http://www.total.com/en/special-reports ... 01958.html


Last edited by sylus on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:06 am 
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Location: The Home Of Mountain Biking, And All Great Things.
Frackin' hell!

There are a number of techniques involved, and a number of different mixes used.

Whether they can use sea water or not, currently not favoured, the waste water is toxic and voluminous. It won't all sit in these fractured locations benignly.

I am open minded about it, we need to have some stop gap provision, but I don't think it should be rushed into and the impact on communities should be considered every bit as much as the environmental impact.

Alex SalmonD has made his arguments often enough about Scotland's net contribution to the UK economy for the 'poor beggars from the North' line to be wearing very thin.

Even Westminster's own research has backed up our claims to be contributing every bit as much as we take, in fact more.

People say what will we do when the oil runs out?

Well, many of the 'spent' wells have lots of oil left in them, and when the world begins to run out of oil and the tech has advanced even more of it will be viable to collect.

By then water will be a highly saleable commodity, and along with the wind, tide and oil it is another asset Scotland can look to.

No tree hugger here, but you don't need to be a tree hugger to know some of the same arguments against fracking apply to wind power.

Millions of tons of concrete turbine bases hardly do wonders for the water table.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:10 am 
Retro Guru
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B77 wrote:
And with attiudes like that it's no wonder that the british public get repeatedly shat on by employers, government, banks, health service etc......jesus

'I can't change anything' what a piss poor argument.

Not quite what I said but it's about right in this case. It could/will be an election issue in a handful of affected (nimby) seats but other than that... so you can't vote it out, protesting is futile, remember Occupy? How do you propose to affect the decision making process?

Go on then, summon the might of Retrobike's collective moral indignation and stick it to the man. Or just have a grumble on the internet. The result will be the same.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:17 am 
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as an Aside, the next state up is North Dakota that is in an oil/gas boom at the momment..no sea there

they are using vast amounts of water from the water table. Over the last 3 years the winters have seen the average snow fall from 4 feet down to almost 1. Now that has a huge impact on the underground water supplies..huge

It also year on year has seen the lands so dry in the summer that huge amount of forest fires/land fires. don't understimate a fire out here, when it happens a fire the size of a county in the u.k. is seen as not unusual

why is that important? Water out here is as valueable as gas especially in cattle country and it will get to a point where we have a balance to choose

Profit is okay but not when that is the only driver there is as we take more and more out of the planet there will be a cost to pay.

No tree hugger here either in fact tree huggers get on my t*ts..but a realist there is a huge damage possible here

as another by the by..immigration..if the uk suddenly has a boom industry do you think no one from europe will not go to those areas for work or do you think only brits will get jobs there?

We are a "I want it now generation irrelevant of the long term cost because I won't be here" ...and we have taught our kids the same mantra

at some point we will have to look beyond the next 5 minutes


Last edited by sylus on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:23 am 
Retro Guru
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Location: wales
the thing is this present government has a pee poor record when it comes to gas take this example
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-20660152

right next door is a LNG terminal that burns a percentage of it's imports heating up water, joined up thinking? not at all.

it's the threat to water tables is the most important issue and yes we do make a difference it's called TELL YOUR MP YOUR CONCERNS and EXCERSISE YOUR DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS

Every time time you drive on a major road built or reserviced/redesigned post 2000 the environment has greater protection such as rain run-off lagoons and drainage to reduce pollution> courtesy of the road protestors of the 90's PROTESTING WORKS


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:00 am 
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joe careless wrote:
Every time time you drive on a major road built or reserviced/redesigned post 2000 the environment has greater protection such as rain run-off lagoons and drainage to reduce pollution> courtesy of the road protestors of the 90's PROTESTING WORKS

Miner's strike.
Iraq war.
CJB
Countryside Alliance re foxhunting.
Occupy.

Literally millions took part and all failed in their key objectives. Protesting generally doesn't work. As I remember it the roads protests in the 90s were concerned with stopping roads being built rather than securing better drainage.

The only major protest I can think of 'working' was the Poll Tax. Which only worked in the sense that we now have a different (in my view deeply unfair) way of collecting the same money from people. Maybe I should protest.


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