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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:56 pm 
eBay Outing Master
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brocklanders023 wrote:
. To compare them is stupid.


your statement is stupid because you looked at the items and not the argument.

For many americans the right to bear arms is as induced as ours with the right to drive cars and many see it as a whole genre having their rights removed based on something you cannot plan or make laws for that will work..crazy people doing crazy things.

You see killing but this side of the pond it's about the rights of the many being removed by the actions of a few

It is a change of mindset and eventually I am sure the gun culture will go away in the states. It is very much a generational thing with less and less people buying arms of the younger generations. it's like motorcycles with less and less youngsters coming along, they just don't like doing anything outside of their bedroom and away from the p.c. so things will change

If however you try and force them and push too hard to fast then I suspect many will over react

If your genuine desire is to see less guns then patience will win through..small steps and I hope the first one is the ban of military type rifles and magazines to civilians


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:47 pm 
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dbmtb wrote:
The deport Piers Morgan thing makes all the "we want to protect our second amendment rights" stuff look like the gibberish it really is. If these people were so bothered about freedom they wouldn't be talking about limiting freedom of speech.



Very very well said.

I see there is now talk (by the gun lobby) of classing 'assault rifles' as 'hunting rifles to get around any ban that may take place.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:19 pm 
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You know, when they banned assault weapons here in California-they are still banned in California, by the way-it was really just some features that they banned-no pistol grips on rifles, no fully automatic weapons, no 30 round magazines, plus a list of rifles that aren't allowed. However, if you are not a convicted felon you may buy any number of rifles with a conventional stock (i.e. M1A1-semi auto version of the M-14, Mini-14, etc.) and pretty much any handgun made. The Right to Bear Arms is in the U.S. Constitution, and it would take a major change in mind set here to change that. I am not a gun nut, but I do own a firearm and I like to shoot it now and then-great fun shooting tin cans and bottles-however, I do not hunt (vegetarian) and would only ever use it to defend myself from bad men with guns (we do have them here)-because the Police only show up after the crime is committed, in most cases. I'm not expecting to ever have to shoot anyone, but it's nice to have a deterrent.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:54 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:04 pm 
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sylus wrote:
I don't think it's as simple as they need their fix


Of course it isn't. But "need their fix" is much more linguistically economical than explaining about changing mindsets and behaviors passed down over generations. But as FairfaxPat so honestly and succinctly put it - guns are also "fun". Changing mindsets is like withdrawal.

Cars/guns analogy is just old and tired.

What I don't understand is how do pro-gun US folks think the population of urban European cities has managed to survive - as all the "bad" guys there have guns too and normal people don't? I lived near Moss Side for 2 years when the drug wars there were peaking.... and never felt in fear of being shot. Mugged yes - but shot no.

Deterrent argument is just flawed - it means that the crims feel they HAVE to gun up. There are very few shootings here in Denmark - and the shootings there are tend to be between gangs who are gunned up on both sides.

What I'm just tired of is the bull spouted by the gun guys that they are pro-freedom and that gun restrictopms would mean their rights are being oppressed. I've also read gun people stating they'd rather shoot than surrender their weapons. The GUN is more important to these people than the freedom. They should just stop hiding behind it.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:24 pm 
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dbmtb wrote:
What I don't understand is how do pro-gun US folks think the population of urban European cities has managed to survive .


And that maybe were the cultural differences appear

How often have we seen "americans need to stop sticking their noses in our business but then we have no problem sticking our noses in theirs?

Whilst anyone can have an opinion on it, only americans will decide what they want to do in their country as any country should have a right for it's citizens to do. I hope they choose not to ban guns but look more closely on how and who they issue them to and when they have them, how to keep them from those who would make such horrible events happen


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:33 pm 
retrobike rider
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sylus wrote:
No majority should be punished for the law breaking of the few.


Unfortunately the UK Govt. at the time did not see it that way, and so they banned all handguns.

Incidentally, two years after the ban was introduced, handgun crime in the UK hit an all time high.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:58 pm 
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sylus wrote:
only americans will decide what they want to do in their country as any country should have a right for it's citizens to do. I hope they choose not to ban guns but look more closely on how and who they issue them to and when they have them, how to keep them from those who would make such horrible events happen


Gun ban won't even be discussed as an option. I am under no illusions as to that.

Neither am I telling any Americans what to think.

I just wish they'd call a spade a spade instead of abusing the concept of freedom which is just a red herring (IMHO).


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:15 pm 
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NeilM wrote:
sylus wrote:
No majority should be punished for the law breaking of the few.


Unfortunately the UK Govt. at the time did not see it that way, and so they banned all handguns.

Incidentally, two years after the ban was introduced, handgun crime in the UK hit an all time high.


Lies, damn lies and statistics.

There is a big difference between gun crime and mass murder.

For balance... in Australia, semi-automatics were banned in 1996. In the 13 years prior to that there were 18 mass shootings. There have been none since.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:34 pm 
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It could be worse-I read that in Iraq they allow every family to own 1 full auto AK-47 for home protection!


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