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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:09 pm 
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I agree, large capacity detachable magazines aren't necessary for anything but the military-however, I have a semi-auto .22 rifle with a 16 round tube magazine that is a good target shooter-but it takes awhile to refill the magazine when it is empty, unlike a weapon with a detachable box magazine, which can be reloaded quickly to facilitate more mayhem. Hunters are already limited to 5 round detachable box magazines, anyway. Also, here in California it is a 10 day wait while background checks are being done before you can pick up your firearm, not 48 hours-and you have to have a Basic Firearms Safety Certificate, which you must pass a written test to get.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:14 pm 
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Some contributors to this thread on both sides of the discussion seem to rely a bit too much on pedantry to back up their arguments.

There are facts and opinions on display.

I have my opinions, and they are as likely to be wrong or right as anyone else's. They are not based on anti-American feelings as I like the US and have visited the western states many times, but I happen not to like some things about the US. In fact, if I was in a position to emigrate the US would be my second choice after Italy.

FACT: But the facts cannot be denied and are that the US has one of the highest ratios of guns (including automatic, semi-automatic, assault etc.} to population in the civilised (and not-civilised, whatever that is) world. It also has one of the highest ratios of deaths (accidental and deliberate) by shooting in the world.

OPINION: 1. Somehow I cannot believe that the two are not connected
2. A significant reduction in gun ownership would reduce deaths by gun (numbers which would not be made up by knives, bow & arrows, crossbows, etc.)
3. Life in the US would go on and its citizens would not lose any important freedoms
4. The government would not suddenly start acting like tyrants to its citizens and Russia/ China/ Iran (whoever is enemy number one at the time} would not invade.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:03 pm 
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You just try telling the kids that.

One thing about this thread I want to make a point on.

Don't indulge the fallacy that US Citizens are not worldly wise, merely because they don't always pay attention to the details of news about Europe.

How many UK members could place most of the states of the US on a map?

You can be extremely well travelled as a US Citizen without having left the country, it is such a vast and varied land. Many UK folks just use that passport to go a resort in Spain or Greece where they mix with other Brits.

My feeling is that the gun problem is a world wide one, even if there are obvious hot spots of trouble.

You cannot legislate internationally, so arguing the toss about our versus your laws blah, blah, blah, is fruitless.

Every country has its own issues, all we can do is offer a hand of friendship when it can be useful.

As Pat points out California Law is different than many other states.

You just cannot tar all the USA with the same brush.

What's so funny about love, peace and understanding?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:07 pm 
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gerryattrick wrote:

FACT: But the facts cannot be denied and are that the US has one of the highest ratios of guns (including automatic, semi-automatic, assault etc.} to population in the civilised (and not-civilised, whatever that is) world. It also has one of the highest ratios of deaths (accidental and deliberate) by shooting in the world.


I believe the u.s. is 10th* after many south american countries but do agree it's the one we think of straight away and wether 1st, 10th or 100th..if there is a chance to reduce these numbers then they should be looked at

gerryattrick wrote:
OPINION:

1. Somehow I cannot believe that the two are not connected
2. A significant reduction in gun ownership would reduce deaths by gun (numbers which would not be made up by knives, bow & arrows, crossbows, etc.)
3. Life in the US would go on and its citizens would not lose any important freedoms
4. The government would not suddenly start acting like tyrants to its citizens and Russia/ China/ Iran (whoever is enemy number one at the time} would not invade.


I think on 1 the problem isn't reducing the amount of guns but reducing the amount of guns getting into the wrong hands and that may mean a national rather than state set of rules

on 2 that would seem a reasonable assumption but again it falls into more correct ownership

3..how often do we hear the state is intruding on our life and taking away our civil rights? and that is the difficult balance the u.s. government and u.s. states now must address

Personally the right idea was not to make snap knee jerk reactions and assurances that this will be dealt with sooner than later I hope is truthfull. I do worry however that Obama was president for 4 years before during other mass shootings and nothing was done then

I still maintain it's a generational thing as most kids today are not interested in hunting, target shooting and over the next 30 years you will see a dramatic decline in gun sales and use. At some point in the future nationwide legislation will take place but for now we have to hope that innocent people on both sides of the debate are not punished through the acts of madmen

* to make this easier for those that use it i have added a wikipedia reference

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:15 pm 
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Putting personal arms under lock and key is hardly causing suffering to anyone.

We have legally held guns here, no one could get hold of them in the event they had a 'bad day' or an argument in a bar.

I could lay my hands on someone else's gun in five minutes over at my bro's.

Smart guns are one way forward, but generally cutting the number out there must be sense.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:16 pm 
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I agree that less guns are, better, and indeed, stricter National Laws are going to be passed soon-I think the consensus here is more restrictions are in order, but I don't think they will ever be outlawed for the citizenry completely. What about knives then, are there size limits in Britain and carry rules? It seems that's how most of your murders are committed these days...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:26 pm 
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"Basic laws on knives

It is illegal to:
sell a knife of any kind (including cutlery and kitchen knives) to anyone under 18
carry a knife in public without good reason - unless it’s a knife with a folding blade 3 inches long (7.62 cm) or less, eg a Swiss Army knife
carry, buy or sell any type of banned knife (the list of banned knives is below)
use any knife in a threatening way (even a legal knife, such as a Swiss Army knife)


Lock knives (knives with blades that can be locked when unfolded) are not folding knives, and are illegal to carry in public.

The maximum penalty for an adult carrying a knife is 4 years in prison and a fine of £5,000."

https://www.gov.uk/find-out-if-i-can-buy-or-carry-a-knife

300 a year, very small numbers relatively. Of course one is too many.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:35 pm 
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Pat, Sylus. Superb evading the question, well done.

Pat, nice little snippet, here's one for you, in 2011 the number of people killed with knives in California alone was 261 for a population of 37 million as opposed to the UK's figures of around 290 for a population of 63 million. Fantastic you win again by a ratio of almost 2 to 1.
You are almost twice as likely to be stabbed in California than the Uk
:lol: :lol: :lol:

In fact California was top of the table you must be so proud.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... s/table-20


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:48 pm 
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B77 wrote:
Pat, Sylus. Superb evading the question, well done.


no evading chap just your selective uninformed reading skills..i did reply

so the weapons themselves should not be the issue but the magazines that hold say 30 shot and I would be in favour of an immediate ban of high capacity magazines

Always happy to repeat stuff for the simple folk :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:53 pm 
retrobike rider
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FairfaxPat wrote:
I agree that less guns are, better, and indeed, stricter National Laws are going to be passed soon-I think the consensus here is more restrictions are in order, but I don't think they will ever be outlawed for the citizenry completely. What about knives then, are there size limits in Britain and carry rules? It seems that's how most of your murders are committed these days...


Another good argument for stricter gun controls Pat. The UK has its fair share of unstable and violent people, imagine how many more would be killed if they had easy access to guns.

There are strict limits on knife carrying but it is easier to get hold of knives than guns - every kitchen has a knife, not every home has access to a gun.


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