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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:38 pm 
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Well you said experiment. How doers what you Eisenhower said show that it was an Experiment. That sounds like an opinion.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:25 pm 
BoTM Winner
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Russell wrote:
Quote:
Debate me on this.


OK...

Many senior military figures and politicians had already declared Japan as out of the game, Eisenhower himself said, when told by US Secretary for War Henry Stimson that nuclear weapons were to be used on Japan "I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary... Japan was at that very moment seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of face." Eisenhower, the guy with responsibility for creating the major war plans to defeat Japan, advised against dropping the bomb because in his opinion, Japan was already dead in the water!

Couple more quotes for you...

(US Strategic Bombing Survey 4, The Summary Report on the Pacific War.) "It seems clear that, even without the atom bomb attacks, air supremacy over japan could have exerted sufficient pressure to bring unconditional surrender and obviate the need for invasion... Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the survey's opinion that certainly prior to December 31, 1945 Japan would have surrendered even if the atom bomb had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated."

(Eisenhower.) "It wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."

Pretty damning stuff.


Ouch that seems( to put it lightly) to me, like giving someone a "good Kicking" when the're down. It should never of happened.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:56 pm 
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We record and catalogue everything we do.
We are supposed to be an intelligent race.
We know the effects and recriminations of war and weaponry...
...and yet we still use them.




.....Are we really as intelligent as we think.....?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:30 pm 
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speedplay wrote:
We record and catalogue everything we do.
We are supposed to be an intelligent race.
We know the effects and recriminations of war and weaponry...
...and yet we still use them.




.....Are we really as intelligent as we think.....?



I agree thats why i said that 60 years after this i cant beleive we havent learnt and still fight wars, i also agree that both bombs was experiments if they wasnt why have two different ones, i dont beleive they knew how either would destroy but they did now they would destroy none the less and this therefore made it an inexcusable offence.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:25 pm 
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In 2000 I have been in Nagasaki.
And believe me, I you see a place that has been totally destroyed,, in real you can really feel the hughe impact it made.
It is still visible, especially on the Hypocenter, a place where a Cathedral used to be, is only a piece of wall. The bricks are broken of, from top to bottom in a straight unnatural way, just from the heat and blast.
In the mueum there, I have seen photo's and object that amazed me.
I had learned about the hughe impact, but only when you experience the size of the damage in real, you feel how awfull it is.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:11 pm 
Posh Mark
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Location: As far from the city as you can be ....
I toured around Japan last year and spent a day in Hiroshima - regardless of your take on things its a harrowing and incredibly humbling place. I have some photos of the Gembaku Domu (Atomic bomb dome) and it’s an incredible sight.

Went through the memorial/museum and to see some of the collected remnants from after is….well….difficult to take.

All in all a fascinating place.

M


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:35 pm 
King of the DuckBoard
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The USA also wanted the Japanese to end it all guickly as the Russians had landed in the North of Japan and they had to stop them before they took the lot. The Japanese are 'still' at war with Russia. Never signed a peace agreement. And The Russians wont give the islands back :evil:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:31 pm 
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Location: No brakes? Way to commit soldier.
Dhphat wrote:
Well you said experiment. How doers what you Eisenhower said show that it was an Experiment. That sounds like an opinion.


Sorry, this is obviously a much larger topic than my little quotes, I didn't want to bore people with huge detail, just picked a couple of quotes to show that the bomb was unneccesary and that Truman actually ignored military advice at the time and pushed the button anyway.

I'll answer your question though. Two different bombs were used, its well documented that the Hiroshima bomb was one which used Uranium and the Nagasaki bomb used Plutonium. The US Govt wanted to see how the two different types of bomb worked in real-life situations, ie, which was more effective at destroying real people in real cities.

AmeyB.. you're quiet, I though we were having a debate?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:48 pm 
South West Deputy AEC
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Whats mad is that the USA didn't even have enough uranium for a big enough bomb. That's until us Brits captured a U boat [U234] and found some that the Germans were sending to Japan to use on the USA.
Ironic, don't you think.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Location: No brakes? Way to commit soldier.
All that is known about U234 is that it was headed for Japan, had both German and Japanese military personnel on board (the Japs committed suicide before capture) and that it was carrying uranium, no-one knows for sure what the Japanese were going to do with it.

There is a persuasive school of thought that thinks that the Japanese were actually going to nuke their own country in the event of a land-based invasion by allied forces. Much in the same way that Kamikaze pilots operated, the Japs had/have a strict code of honour and many people think that the countries leaders would rather have taken out the Allied landing parties and their own country at the same time if it meant Japan not falling into enemy hands.

They might have been planning to nuke the USA, the trouble with the story of U234 is that we'll never really know.


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