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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:54 pm 
eBay Outing Master
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unkleGsif wrote:
sylus wrote:
There is a good reason why succesive governments have not allowed uk citizens to have a euro referendum as other countries have been allowed to do ....and it's because they know the greatest vote against europe would happen and other countries would demand the vote and follow


I think you will find that the main reason that Govt's have not delivered a referendum on the EU to the UK populous, is because the vast majority will vote the way that the paper they read/their family/friends/heresay (delete as appropriate) will tell them to vote, and not from their own researched, informed and thought out perspective......

"come here Flossy, its time for shearing"

"baahah... baahaah..... "
Image
G


Just woke and read the thread and gif you did make I larf

This silly you will vote for the paper you read assumes you know what people read and they will have an opinion because of it

Could it just be that some see europe for what it is and are happy to have an opinion?

As for the sheep..I'm afraid yours is the sheep rhetoric

you don't like europe so you must be a daily mail reader..is like your a working class man so you must vote labour or... stereotyping an opinion to a cause is similar to those who lambast people who have an opinion say on immigration as racists.

The real sheep are those who use such tools as a way to shut others up from an opinion they do not agree with

Back to europe..it's actually okay not to be happy with it when you look at the structure vs cost vs benefit

If you own your own company would you use the model based on the eu? absolutely not, if your business partner wanted to put in 20% return whilst taking 80% of the funds would you think that is okay? again of course not

Some are making opinions based on what they know and I respect that but some of us were around when national borders existed, countries actually paid their own governments to manage and trade between the countries of europe went pretty well

It seems at odds then given all countries do in fact have thier own elected government that we have somehow given a group of mostly non elected officials so much power over the people we have elected

Europe under it's current guise is a house of cards waiting to fall. We are fortunate we stayed well out of the euro.

as to greece not being the eu's fault? I would have to disagree. Just like you or I they wanted to join a financial institution and a credit check was required. now unless the european parliment has been asleep since it's inception then they would have easily known greece could not pay it's bills but still they allowed them to join. Even now the e.u. has lent billions only to wipe out a large part of that very recent debt to then loan more..at what point is the eu not at fault?

It is simple mechanics. The eu went from it's original aim of creating a stronger agency for world trade for it's members into being a controlling non accountable body and it either needs to be slimmed down before it falls or be scrapped completely and start up again back at it's original purpose

and no I don't need to read just one paper to know that :P :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:30 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 1:20 pm
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It is sad to say that the majority of people vote based on how their family/friends vote or how their newspaper tells them to vote or by some other means other than researching and making a decision themselves.

Just look at the last referendum we had on the way we vote. The vox pops on the telly and radio and the whole NO argument was all about "it's too complicated". The fact is most people are like sheep. Most people are dumb and lazy. Yes there are some, like those of us posting in this thread who are politically engaged and motivated but most aren't.

Referendums are pointless and will remain so until we get the majority of the population interested in the subject matter. Whilst they would rather watch reality TV than engage in debate about their own lives there is no point asking them about said lives.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:37 pm 
eBay Outing Master
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I agree on some points yag

there is certianly a huge apathy towards politics based on I fee,l most feel it's a big boys club no matter what flag colour the government are wearing.

The association type voting I feel largely is a thing of the past. Perhaps the only way to get people to vote now is to change poilitics to a facebook page and see who gets the most likes :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:13 pm 
Gold Trader / PoTM Winner
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sylus wrote:
Just woke and read the thread and gif you did make I larf


Morning.... :wink:


sylus wrote:
As for the sheep..I'm afraid yours is the sheep rhetoric

you don't like europe so you must be a daily mail reader..is like your a working class man so you must vote labour or... stereotyping an opinion to a cause is similar to those who lambast people who have an opinion say on immigration as racists.

The real sheep are those who use such tools as a way to shut others up from an opinion they do not agree with



It could be said that ANY statement, sweeping or otherwise, is stereotypical of something, so we are both arguing the toss over a void topic really


sylus wrote:
If you own your own company would you use the model based on the eu? absolutely not, if your business partner wanted to put in 20% return whilst taking 80% of the funds would you think that is okay? again of course not



I would, if there was consideratyion given to the "X" factor (not that Cowell fecker who pollutes the general masses).... If said business partner put in 20%, took 80%, but the business benefited in other non financial ways or gave added value, then yes, I would be happy
Where did this 80:20 thing come from anyway?


G


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:41 pm 
eBay Outing Master
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working on the amount in vs the amount out

interestingly to prove my point on the eu being nothing more than a rich boys club

The court of auditors who monitor and evaluate the european states parliment spending with our taxes has again for the 18th year in succession refused to sign off on the accounts because waste and abuse is so high that they refuse to put their name to a it's all okay jack document. Declaring that if anything errors are on the rise.

Yet, next month the euro frauds meet to ask for a huge rise in donations from member states

using google will easily establish this without some's need to refer to the daily Mail :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:01 am 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm
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Location: New Forest, UK
gibbleking wrote:
out ...just based on whats happened over the years to industry being hammered by cheaper competition


A fine theory, except the cheaper competition is is China and India.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:28 pm 
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greenstiles wrote:
The German chancellor was articulating the sentiments of almost the entire European political class, which is committed to the project.


I call Godwins law....

(Sorry in way too good a mood today to participate properly in this discussion)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Except ... that if GB does leave the EU - it would make it very difficult for me to continue selling UK-made stuff in Denmark.

Which would be a shame.

Not that I'm saving the economy as a little one-man outfit - but I've sent about £8000 worth of business to the UK over the last 3 months.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:19 pm 
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dbmtb wrote:
- but I've sent about £8000 worth of business to the UK over the last 3 months.



Churchill would be proud :wink:

G


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Free trade is good. But do we need everything else? It seems terribly wasteful to have all these MEPs.

And as stated before the CAP is a terribe scam. It takes money from our pockets and puts in the coffers of wealthy landowners.

No good the EU does can counter this for me.


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