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 Post subject: VW t4 experts...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:09 pm 
Ain't no party like an S Club party
Ain't no party like an S Club party
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Howdy all:

I know there's a few on here with interests in these, looking for some words of wisdom and advice if possible...

Next door neighbour had his cam belt go last week. Very slow speed pulling away from a roundabout. Pulled up straight away and killed engine, but then foolishly turned it over again.

It got towed to a garage and I wanted some confirmation on what they're saying to him as for me it sounds a little far fetched.

They will change the belt [and pulley] and rebuild for £550, but they're saying they can't check the valves at the same time. Apparently they will have to send the head off to be checked, and the £550 is simply for replacing as is - if the valves are gone it will all have to come off again.

This sounds a bit like bollocks to me. In honesty, my knowledge is limited to straight 6 TR engines, so this is all new to me, but not being able to check the valves in situ for damage sounds like nonsense?

I've suggested towing it back and we can change the belt ourselves [we're good neighbours] but on the understanding that it will be a new one on me and we both treat it as a learning exercise. However, I don't want to mislead him and find we've taken on more than we can chew really...!

Any thoughts from those in the know?

Any experts in the Warwick area, or suggestions for who he could contact for some specialist advice?

He's happy to pay a garage if it's easier all round, but I said I'd check here first as the garage seems to me to be taking him for a ride, and adding more and more things that need doing, without actually checking anything. He already owes them £110 for 4 hours work, and I'm at a loss as to what they could have done over 4 hours that didn't include checking the valves for damage?!

He's asked me because he knows I've rebuilt the TR6 engine in the recent past, and just wanted some friendly advice on what he should do with the garage. Me being me however, I've somehow got myself into offering to do it ourselves!

Ranting here really, but any friendly advice would be most appreciated from those with more [any] experience on these than me...


Cheers,
BB


Forgot to mention - it's a 2.5 tdi engine...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:30 pm 
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That sounds a bit odd. Isn't the normal procedure to do a compression test? Poor compression results equals bent valves, if its good then fit a new cam belt.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:35 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=192200

The above thread says its a 'contact' engine, which means the timing cannot go out else the vales / pistons meet.

Unless he was 'very' lucky, I wouldn't even bother with the timing belt, would just be a case of removing the head to see what damage is present. If he tried to start it again, I would have hoped there was a cam sensor would not allow it to turn over but not sure how that works on those engines.

Any chance you can borrow a bore-scope?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:41 pm 
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DA-EVO wrote:
I would have hoped there was a cam sensor would not allow it to turn over but not sure how that works on those engines.


If the cam belt has broken surely the cam won't move?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:42 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Robbied196 wrote:
That sounds a bit odd. Isn't the normal procedure to do a compression test? Poor compression results equals bent valves, if its good then fit a new cam belt.


Silly me,

The above is much cheaper / quicker and easier to do.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:45 pm 
Gold Trader / PoTM Winner
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Robbied196 wrote:
DA-EVO wrote:
I would have hoped there was a cam sensor would not allow it to turn over but not sure how that works on those engines.


If the cam belt has broken surely the cam won't move?



....yep, and with a valve stationary in the "open" position, it will get freindly with the piston crown in no time



G


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:30 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:03 am
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I know nothing about VW's but I do know my sister in law works here:

http://www.vwheritage.com/

They are a bloody good bunch and will be only to willing to offer advice.
Can't hurt to ask a question.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:37 pm 
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Quote:
they will have to send the head off to be checked


That doesn't make any sense -- if they've got as far as taking the head off they'll be able to see the pistons and valves.

If it's knackered you're looking at £1500-2000 for a rebuild, or several hundred pounds plus your time for DIY. Might be easier to replace the whole engine with one from a scrapper, although you'd want to do the cambelt on the replacement one too...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:22 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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My mate says don't bother with the belt because it's a contact engine. He says pull the head off as the belt is already off and check the valves and pistons for marks as you'll be able to see. If the valves are bust send the head away and get new valves or look for a second hand engine. Fitting a cam belt on a 2.5 will be costly as there's two belts and the fuel pump timing can be hard to set.

No idea what any of that means but my pal is a spanner monkey and T4 mad. His engine went recently so he replaced the whole thing with a Golf TD one.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:34 pm 
Ain't no party like an S Club party
Ain't no party like an S Club party
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MikeD wrote:
Quote:
they will have to send the head off to be checked


That doesn't make any sense -- if they've got as far as taking the head off they'll be able to see the pistons and valves.

If it's knackered you're looking at £1500-2000 for a rebuild, or several hundred pounds plus your time for DIY. Might be easier to replace the whole engine with one from a scrapper, although you'd want to do the cambelt on the replacement one too...


Exactly what I thought tbh...

Thanks for the input guys - have passed on the 'good' news...

It's all down to him not changing the belt - which he was about to do.. It's only just done 70k so engine as a whole is relatively young. It's a tough decision for him to make as he's only had it a year, but probably best to get out now before sinking more and more into it...

BB


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