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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:48 pm 
BoTM Winner / Gold Trader
BoTM Winner / Gold Trader
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Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:36 am
Posts: 4715
Location: Burlington, ON Canada
John wrote:
No. We generally give members a second chance if they come good in the end. You might also note that a term of being allowed back on the site is that DJ clear up the web of various accounts and paypal IDs along with a reasonable reason for not sending the goods.


His (documented) chronic ebay scams/shill bidding combined with his needing to be threatened with police action to make good on deals and sock puppetry here should invoke the leopard/spots analogy. We (the members) are just a new pasture for him to graze in at will.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:11 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:08 am
Posts: 847
Location: French Alps/Annecy
webba wrote:
[quote="J

As an aside wonder why more people don't use bank transfers. They are free, far more traceable and only slightly more hassle. I'd imagine most of us have online access to our accounts now it's 2012.


funnily enough I asked DJ if I could pay by bank transfer but HE insisted I used paypal - oh how you laugh with hindsight[/quote]

Probably because trying to get anything done if you're ripped off would involve the old bill and small claims court and trying to get the money back would be an incredible hassle, they're far less secure than paypal goods.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:49 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:57 pm
Posts: 4074
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Paypal goods is the easiest way to get your money back indeed.
Bank transfers (and especially international ones) generally take more time and hen things go wrong there's a LOT of paperwork involved.

As for the Gift vs Goods discussion :

For small items from sellers I trust, I don't mind paying with gift. If the item disappears in transit or gets damaged, so be it. As long as the seller and buyer are both capable of solving things like adults, you'll be able to come to a solution that both parties can live with.
When buying from sellers who are fairly new or who I don't really know all that well, I'll pay for goods and add the cost.

When I sell, I never mention gift or goods. If I ask £50 and the buyer pays £50 for goods, that's fine with me. If he pays £50 with gift, even better.
If the item arrives, I have received more for it. If it doesn't, I'll work something out with the buyer anyway.

Keep one thing in mind though : the general guideline here is to pay for goods. If you pay as gift and get in trouble, it's your monkey.


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 Post subject: Forum rules
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:09 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:03 pm
Posts: 5105
Location: held captive by baby haggis in a cave in Scotland
I never ask for paypal gift and I actually thought it was against the rules of this forum.
If someone asks for £20 gift, for example, I will inform them that I will pay for goods and pay the fee's. There is a check box on the second page of paypal payment type box, where 'Gift' is listed that allows the sender to pay the fee's. If someone insists it be paid for with gift, even though I'm willing to pay the fee's then I steer well clear as there is absolutely no valid reason other than it cant be traced or refunded.
The exceptions to my dealings are people on here that I have dealt with many times and 'know' fairly well and trust, then gift is used as it saves us both fee's and we still have peace of mind if theres a problem.
Most people dont ask for gift, though it is on the increase and I dont ask, or expect it. As mentioned, I thought it was against forum rules, not that that makes any difference to the way I deal or expect to be dealt to.
My opinion, and it may well be the laws as well, is that if you give someone a gift, its a gift no strings, no expectation of something in return, so if nothing comes in return, then you cant really start complaining :roll: Harsh maybe but thats what I have always thought of as a gift, and I'm sure paypal think the same way so I really do laugh when I see a thread on the forum with someone complaining that they got ripped off and paypal wont help them, why should they, they did you a favour at no cost to send money, when technically you have defrauded them of their rightly owed fee.
This is certainly not directed to this post as this seems to be a clear case of someone setting out to decieve and defraud people and hopefully it will get sorted happily for everyone thats owed.
I think Paypal is Ok and its convenient, hence why I signed up and use it. Everybody who uses it ticked the little box to say they agreed to the terms of use. This is a legal document, so if caught defrauding them, I am sure they would pursue it.
I am also quite sure that they will soon, if not already doing it, monitor accounts with constant ingoing and outgoing 'gift' payments.
By paying with gift you are not just saving 4% in fee's, you are giving up any evidence of a transaction and hence any protection afforded.
This sounds like a marketing excersise for paypal, but its not, my issue is that there are currently about four threads with people having issues with non delivery, dissapearing sellers etc and in most there is someone thats paid with gift, it just seems to perpetuate the rip off deals and I'm sure because its commonly used on most cycling forums that it may even be attracting the lowlifes.
Just something to think about.

Jamie


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