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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:14 pm 
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Kerplunk wrote:
highlandsflyer wrote:
We need the USA to provide justice?

What has become of this land, that we complain of multiple acts of crime by a man but cannot bring him to justcice right here?


Why on earth should we trust the USA to provide adequate care for a UK citizen, never mind a fair trial?



The crime was committed on servers in the US so that's where the trial should have been. He admitted his guilt. He was offered a deal which would have meant a reduced sentence and its very unlikely that the US would have rejected a request to serve his sentence in a British prison. Looking for UFOs wasnt his original defence. I don't want to sound harsh but if his aspergers was so obvious why didnt any of his family, froends, colleagues etc pick up on it before his lawyer did? I don't think he should necessarily have been deported but can't help but think its been played on somewhat. The national press seemed to quite like the extradition treaty last week when Hamsa got shipped off but this week its grossly unfair...


I understand your point of view, but is it really a counterpoint to mine? Seems it would stand alone rather than as an 'answer' to my post, as it does not really address my points.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:16 pm 
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B77 wrote:
He hacked into the computers of the largest terrorist organisation on the planet. Well done to him I say, give him a medal.



You can tell the civilisation of any society by the way it treats its prisoners. Well done B77 - the grostesque wickedness of George W. Bush not being called to account for his crimes in the US whilst McKinon might've been.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:15 pm 
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highlandsflyer wrote:
We need the USA to provide justice?

What has become of this land, that we complain of multiple acts of crime by a man but cannot bring him to justcice right here?

The USA has a history of putting to death persons of low IQ, recently sticking an aging businessman in prison with dangerous cellmates and historically keeping scores of foreign nationals in torture rife limbo for years without trial nor charge.

Why on earth should we trust the USA to provide adequate care for a UK citizen, never mind a fair trial?

I am with B77 on this one.

Punishment should be relative to the harm done, not merely the potential.

If McKinnon could so easily enter their back doors, then should they not offer him work in their anti terrorist efforts rather than put him on trial for doing nothing more than exposing their asses?


This as I understand it is their main problem. His hacking was akin to that of 'mobile phone hacking'. Passwords hadn't been changed from defaults or had been set as simple as 'password'. They are embarrassed and are pushing for extradition to cover-up their own failings.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:29 pm 
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When in opposition, didn't Cameron and May say that if they were in power, they wouldn't ever extradite him? They has sort of backed them selves into a corner.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:04 pm 
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Most laws are woefully behind the electronic age and in typical U.S. tradition the goverment thinks it owns the internet. The fact Gary was able to do to them what they have been doing to others for decades just doesn't register with them.

google, apple, microsoft and facebook did not get that big and hold so much personal information on people without goverment assistance and collaberation

Hacking such as Gary did is illegal here in the u.k. and as a British citizen whilst in Britian he should be tried here. It's upto a jury to decide wether it was through personal amusement or malicious intent

We've bent over so many times for the U.S. & European governments that we seem to have forgotten how to do it ourselves


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:57 pm 
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highlandsflyer wrote:
Kerplunk wrote:
highlandsflyer wrote:
We need the USA to provide justice?

What has become of this land, that we complain of multiple acts of crime by a man but cannot bring him to justcice right here?


Why on earth should we trust the USA to provide adequate care for a UK citizen, never mind a fair trial?



The crime was committed on servers in the US so that's where the trial should have been. He admitted his guilt. He was offered a deal which would have meant a reduced sentence and its very unlikely that the US would have rejected a request to serve his sentence in a British prison. Looking for UFOs wasnt his original defence. I don't want to sound harsh but if his aspergers was so obvious why didnt any of his family, froends, colleagues etc pick up on it before his lawyer did? I don't think he should necessarily have been deported but can't help but think its been played on somewhat. The national press seemed to quite like the extradition treaty last week when Hamsa got shipped off but this week its grossly unfair...


I understand your point of view, but is it really a counterpoint to mine? Seems it would stand alone rather than as an 'answer' to my post, as it does not really address my points.


Sorry wasn't really meant as a counterpoint as such I just think this case is portrayed a bit one sided in the media. If he was just looking for proof about UFOs why the file deletions and user account deletions etc?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:30 pm 
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What he actually did nobody except him and those he offended knows for the media is awash with the usual half truths, lies and wishful thinking, whatever supports their position and their readership.

But I understand the Americans won't say exactly what he did, which could be because they are making a lot of it up and quite possibly they intended him to carry the can for their mess ups or others who hacked the same systems before and after for people should at least have a clue that because one person was caught through his own naivety that is not an indication he was the only one that did it.

I still maintain he knew exactly what he was doing, he knew it was wrong but he did it anyway because he needed the information, his obsession and special interest where if you know aspies they don't give up until they have their answers. In his mind he believed the Americans were hiding information and to his sense of justice that was wrong so he felt he was justified in what he was doing.

Now if he did find information on free energy he believed the Americans were hiding I don't doubt he would have splurged to the world as it is not in many aspies to keep things that benefit others to themselves and it is a fact many aspies that have gone before, those that through their recorded behaviour have been likened to what we know now were humanitarians out to make the word a better place away from those that wish to profit for themselves.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:36 pm 
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Still not sure why this has all taken so long though.

A foreign Government accused a British subject of committing a crime on British soil. Our Police/CPS should have investigated and decided whether there was a case to answer in this country. He should then have either been arrested, charged and tried or not. Once our justice system had reached it's natural conclusion then we could have decided whether he should be extradited or not.

To seemingly have a default position of accepting all extradition requests from the US is crazy.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:48 pm 
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The lad has been through ten years of hell.

My heart goes out to him and his loved ones.

It doesn't really bleed for the self styled world's policemen who consider their jurisdiction unbounded.

Whatever he did, it clearly was not a terrorist act.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:48 pm 
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I highly suspect as far as British justice was concerned this was a non case, in fact a pathetic request and so they dithered and asked the president is he serious on this issue to which Obama replied he would respect the British decision and so that should have been an end to the matter. But the gravy train was rolling and people were making money one cannot deprive the justice system of making money now can we bearing in mind that is what the justice system is for and it is by no coincidence the legislators that are in government are from same trade, some could say they legislate to make themselves wealthy but that is too cynical isn't it.

It would be interesting to discover how much money is made by the legal profession every year in cases such as extradition and how much the public purse is being hammered.

As to this one sided agreement hey it brings cases to be mulled over and in mulling, money is being made, people are being paid, it is an industry.


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