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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:24 pm 
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Location: UK Southwest
legrandefromage wrote:
too much emphasis is on the bike and not the rider anymore.


I've ridden modern 6" travel full sussers that made rocky trails feel smoother than my road bike does on a badly tarmaced road. I thought the whole point in mountainbiking was to ride over rough stuff :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:24 pm
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Location: Tavistock, Devon
the 1991 timberline was a much higher spec and iirc closer to £400? talera was main tubes in cro mo. Anyway it's clear to see that a modern bike, at a similar inflation linked price point is far better value for money.

You will always get the idiot who breaks things 'just riding off the kerb' and those who can't maintain a thing.

In response to the original question, No i do not think modern bikes are overpriced. We just compare a retro £400 bike to a modern £400 bike which is not correct.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:04 am 
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Lots of peoples wages are almost the same for low paid jobs , take in to account the price of food and bills, disposable income is not that good for some people.........

so if your wages have gone up inline with the price hike of all out goings then yes modern bikes may be great at certain price points...........

but taking into consideration that the technology and advances should be offering us lighter better value bikes after 20 years, then the budget, starter bikes look, ride, weigh, perform, as bad value to me.

As soon as you get around the £750 range things get a bit better......but 20 years ago you could buy a buget bike than had performance.

up to £500 theres a lot of heavy dead riding, crap out there, where the bike would ride better if you took the 'token' forks off.


So i guess it all comes down to income and your bills, how you percieve value..............

its just years ago it seemed like you could get into mountain biking even if you were lowly paid..........now to get the good stuff you have to earn a bob or two.............again 20 years have past we should have bikes at £400 that ride amazingly compared to the old budget stuff.......but they don't.


Last edited by greenstiles on Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:37 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:32 am 
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^^ That. ^^

Many modern mid- and entry-level bikes that an average biker might be able to afford are over-weight monoliths with crap forks and horrible everything.

Technological trickle-down should have given that segment of the market great bikes at affordable prices. Shifting and braking are better across the range, but the manus cracked that nut long ago.

Apart from that, I see no real improvements until you start throwing large amounts of money at a bike... amounts that are too large for many people with stagnant incomes and obligations like mortgages and family, which limit disposable income.

Rather than focusing on improving the real-world riding experience, we now have "innovations" like numerous incompatible headset, fork-steerer and BB "standards"; and woefully fragile BB bearings/ crank interfaces.

Bravo!! :facepalm:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:16 pm 
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DM wrote:
Rather than focusing on improving the real-world riding experience, we now have "innovations" like numerous incompatible headset, fork-steerer and BB "standards"; and woefully fragile BB bearings/ crank interfaces.

Bravo!! :facepalm:


Yeah but all that stuff is wicked cool and if you haven't got a tapered steerer then the front of your bike will probably fall off because 1 1/8th isn't strong enough, not even for road bikes!!! :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:32 pm 
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Location: Antwerp, Belgium
DM wrote:
Rather than focusing on improving the real-world riding experience, we now have "innovations" like numerous incompatible headset, fork-steerer and BB "standards"; and woefully fragile BB bearings/ crank interfaces.

Bravo!! :facepalm:


At least my LBS will benefit from that. If I don't know exactly what I need, I'll let him figure it out. Then I ask him, so I can just order the part if I ever need to replace it again.

On the other hand, my modern's manufacturer has excellent customer service, so I shouldn't even get in touch with my LBS.
If I mail them to ask what standard they use for part x on model y of year z (or with just the part description and the bike's serial number), they'll answer correct and within 48 hours.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:59 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:03 am
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Location: Sunny Glasgow
I think the majority of mid range bikes are totally crap
Take the newer Orange Pure7 for instance

Retail price- £1000
Yes you get a fork.In this case its a RockShox Tora 302 Solo [retail £180]Hardly a great fork but its designed to be 5" so its really only used because it looks the part,implies its for a use like racing all mountain but its not a lot better than a standard suntour sus fork[aka -flexy]

Brakes-Avid elixer3 -Again hardly the top end or even mid range.they do the job but only just.

Frame- Yes cromo,or as they like to introduce it Pure 100% cromo but massively heavier than my clockwork frame which is touted at about the same price/level

Wheels- mavic 119 on deore 525. Not bad but the rims are a bit on the soft side and in a world of easy to use and replace cartridge bearings have opted for cup and cone.seems to me a cost cutting exercise

Drivetrain- Very middle of the road.Keeping tradition of using a rear mech from a more expensive groupset to give the overall appearance of high end when the rest of the parts are low end alivio.

Other bits- Again a smattering of nice parts like the bel air saddle and conti tyres .Raceface post/stem and bars is hardly the best they could have chosen,more likely picked for their associated heritage :?

Overall impression
Looks the part.The forks make it look better than it is or at least imply such.
Clockwork equivalent for a Grand would have had more or less a complete LX groupset[forks werent available as much as now so i havent factored them in :? just really comparing the other parts.

Overpriced and overweight would be my assessment :)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:15 pm 
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Location: Antwerp, Belgium
dyna-ti wrote:
Take the newer Orange Pure7 for instance

Retail price- £1000


Just goes to show what I said earlier. Avoid the "big" or "well known" brands from the past.
£1000 can easily get you a <25lbs bike with a Reba, good brakes and a full XT set.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:06 pm 
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Raging_Bulls wrote:
dyna-ti wrote:
Take the newer Orange Pure7 for instance

Retail price- £1000


Just goes to show what I said earlier. Avoid the "big" or "well known" brands from the past.
£1000 can easily get you a <25lbs bike with a Reba, good brakes and a full XT set.


orrrrrr that's a good start for funds for a decent klein...now if only I had a wardrobe to hide my bikes like she has for shoes


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:24 pm
Posts: 426
Location: Tavistock, Devon
The average wage in 1990 was £13760, in 2011 it was £26000.

What has changed a lot is the amount of crap that takes up your money that has been invented since.
Sky
Mobiles
Tinternet
Games consoles
ipods
etc

So maybe if you went back to the bare bones of what you had to spend out in the early 90s you would be able to afford a better modern bike.

Or to compare a 93 lava dome £525 http://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/Bike ... CkZ_E38uSo

new fire mountain £549 http://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.p ... ory_id=148

the lava dome was an extra £150 with front sus iirc

I lusted big style over the review in mbuk or whatever for that lava dome, but the spec is no better than the modern bike even at the same price point.


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