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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:52 pm 
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unkleGsif wrote:
Neil wrote:
unkleGsif wrote:
I have always said, that there is yet to be a more opinionated, narrow-minded bunch of arses than cyclists.

You say that like it's a bad thing...

Its not,
I merely (sarcastically) implied it, then qualified it as actually being one of the most positive things about cycling and cyclists....

unkleGsif wrote:
We will never see eye to eye on anything, because its simply so subjective. And that it what makes it so great.... diversity

G


G

That's different, though - ain't it?

Latterly, you're saying diversity is, well cool - I'm kinda luke warm on that.

But initially implied that being opinionated and narrow minded is a Bad Thing (tm) - which you'd have to say - at least generally - is kind of mutually exclusive with celebrating diversity.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:59 pm 
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As to the pricing thing, I see it like this - the general public (those outside of the enthusiast demographic) tend to have reasonably fixed ideas on pricing of things like bikes, I suppose on most utilitarian things, really, that don't hugely move with the times.

So bikes in normal-ish ranges, don't appear to have shifted on much in price, compared to inflation (said in a Fast-Show-esque manner).

Yet times move on, and so does what you get for your money. That they should be generally better at what you throw them at - I very much suspect so - but if not, they're doing it wrong.

All the same, though, usage has largely changed - as Kaiser mentioned - BITD late 80s, early 90s, people went up, went across, as well as going down, these days, maybe more of the going down...

Like others, I don't truly get the old-is-better / new-is-better argument. I like old bikes simply because of my perferences, and perhaps something I can likely claim about them - I'll still have them and use them in another 20 years time.

What I'm entirely unsure of, is whether that golden era that many celebrate was necessarily any more special, objectively, than it will subjectively be for modern to young wippersnappers, in a decade or two from now.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Thing that gets up my nose these days as well is the' no you can't sit on the bike and try it for size' WHAT !

You have to buy a bike 1st , then they will recomend which size you will need of that bike...........whatif the geometry of that bike/brand doesn't suit ?

Would you go to a shoe shop and let them say , no you can't try different sizes on ...we'll decide after you buy shoes just by looking at them.........quite a lot of shops do this now :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Not necessarily Neil....

gonna drift off topic, so will leave it here, (despite interest in your being luke warm on diversity statement)


G


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:51 pm 
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New bikes are over priced and poor value for money when compared to the retros that many of us lot like. But that's comparing new with second hand. With £300 in my pocket, I can pick up something fabulous from RB or E-bay. Walk into a bike shop with the same money and there's nothing I'd want to ride for that kind of cash. Retro, used, second hand, pre-loved; - whatever you want to call it - is the way to go, especially in these autere times :D


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:54 pm 
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Yeah, ok, but yu're comparing apples and oranges here. New versus 20 year old second-hand will always have a difference in price.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:26 pm 
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biggins wrote:
I didn't think the question was what is better, but are modern over priced. For many years bikes were becoming incredibly better value. But, as mentioned earlier, since 2008 prices have rocketed. In 2008 a Trek Top Fuel 9 with XT was £1750. This year with mostly SLX its £2500.

Its the price hike in the past four years that makes me think they are now over priced.


They haven't really gone up much since 2008, we've all got poorer. Most of the stuff we buy is imported and our pounds aren't worth what they were a few years ago so just don't buy as much on the world market anymore. Hope stuff hasn't really gone up. A Pro 2 rear hub was £125 in 2008 and it's £125 now.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:24 pm 
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Le grand fromage - what 300 pound 1990 bike had a cro mo frame, my 1990 timberline had a cromo seattube that's it, and it was £330. Weighed more than my garden and was torture to ride off road.

I agree with value on modern bikes, I only custom build bikes and get far better spec, my lapierre cost me less than half what a lesser specced new one would cost. I ride the same trails now as I did on my old bikes, just a bit faster on the technical bits and I haven't tacod a rim in 10 or so years. My brakes work in the wet and dry, I prefer it for the riding I do.

To say as a blanket statement that modern bikes are not as good is stupid, do you remember those bright yellow Boss bikes? Utter turd.
You could buy a penny farthing bitd for a fraction of what you paid for your overatedretrobestbikeintheworld, and quite a few of them are still going. And seems as its older, it must be better.

Ride what you like, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Until you've ridden every bike ever made you can't say that yours is best

As Einstein said, 'Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe.'


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:11 pm 
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One thing I can say about modern bikes is that they are ugly and between brands pretty much the same looking- take the nineties with the nutty pain jobs, bright even shocking colour schemes and compare then to what the predominant colour of ATB is now, modern bikes just look too work man like and drab.

But there is something else, it is even seen in second hand prices, the UK appears to be more expensive than the US ? Perhaps much of that has to do with el presidente keeping the cost of gas at the pumps unbelievably cheap, (hence one of the reasons the US is militarily aggressive), but because we are used to paying more perhaps business ethos is charge high because though we might grumble, we always pay top dollar and so we have 'rip off Britain' in most things.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:14 pm 
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silverclaws wrote:
One thing I can say about modern bikes is that they are ugly and between brands pretty much the same looking- take the nineties with the nutty pain jobs, bright even shocking colour schemes and compare then to what the predominant colour of ATB is now, modern bikes just look too work man like and drab.

But there is something else, it is even seen in second hand prices, the UK appears to be more expensive than the US ? Perhaps much of that has to do with el presidente keeping the cost of gas at the pumps unbelievably cheap, (hence one of the reasons the US is militarily aggressive), but because we are used to paying more perhaps business ethos is charge high because though we might grumble, we always pay top dollar and so we have 'rip off Britain' in most things.

Well I don't know about second-hand bike prices in the US in comparison to the UK, but second-hand cars in the US seem significantly more expensive than in the UK. Whether that's changed much in very recent times, I'm unsure, but up 'til fairly recently, stood as being true.


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