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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:45 am 
Gold Trader / PoTM Winner
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I have always said, that there is yet to be a more opinionated, narrow-minded bunch of arses than cyclists.

No matter what sub-category of cyclist you belong (see, we cant but help pigeon holing ourselves), there are arguments and counter arguments to be had at every turn....

Mavic vs everything else
Shimano vs SRAM
Carbon vs Alley
Steel vs everything else
Handmade vs everything else
Road vs Mtb
Tube vs tubeless
Riser vs Flat
Barends vs none
26 vs 29
Old vs New

We will never see eye to eye on anything, because its simply so subjective. And that it what makes it so great.... diversity

G


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:42 am 
retrobike rider
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unkleGsif wrote:
I have always said, that there is yet to be a more opinionated, narrow-minded bunch of arses than cyclists.

No matter what sub-category of cyclist you belong (see, we cant but help pigeon holing ourselves), there are arguments and counter arguments to be had at every turn....

Mavic vs everything else
Shimano vs SRAM
Carbon vs Alley
Steel vs everything else
Handmade vs everything else
Road vs Mtb
Tube vs tubeless
Riser vs Flat
Barends vs none
26 vs 29
Old vs New

We will never see eye to eye on anything, because its simply so subjective. And that it what makes it so great.... diversity

G


+1!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:48 pm 
Special Retro Guru
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unkleGsif wrote:
I have always said, that there is yet to be a more opinionated, narrow-minded bunch of arses than cyclists.

You say that like it's a bad thing...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:08 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:47 pm
Posts: 194
Location: Conyer, Kent
I didn't think the question was what is better, but are modern over priced. For many years bikes were becoming incredibly better value. But, as mentioned earlier, since 2008 prices have rocketed. In 2008 a Trek Top Fuel 9 with XT was £1750. This year with mostly SLX its £2500.

Its the price hike in the past four years that makes me think they are now over priced.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:14 pm 
retrobike rider
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pete_mcc wrote:

Modern bikes are cheaper, more comfortable, safer, stronger, better made and more reliable than our 20 year old monsters. Doesn't make them nicer though...



we'll see how many of these modern bikes are kicking around a website like this in 20 years time then! ;) :P


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:37 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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pete_mcc wrote:
Modern bikes are cheaper, more comfortable, safer, stronger, better made and more reliable than our 20 year old monsters. Doesn't make them nicer though...



They are not any more 'comfortable' nor safer, definitely not as strong as you would think and in no way more reliable - in fact I dont think any real progress has been made - whole runs of 2010 frames failed at their pivot points and had to be replaced. A whole run of 1997 frames cracked at their pivot points and had to be replaced. A whole run of 1990's bonded frames had their issues, a whole run of 2011 carbon frames had bonding issues. There are parallels throughout the decades. We're just focusing on our tiny point in life.

A £299 1990 bike with 21spd and cromo frame was considered a good starting point. A 2011 £399 bike with discs, front suspension and 24/7 spds is considered a good starting point - except, those forks are terrible, the BBs wear out way too quickly and the headsets had to be overtightened to stop the cups from moving in the frame.

The 1990 bike may have had STi that gummed up but everything else was fairly straight forward. Threaded headsets loosened and wore away the thread if not checked, BB's worked loose but could be tightened or serviced but there wasnt much else to worry about.

Modern bikes have too many BB standards. Many modern external BB's wear way too quickly when compared to an older internal BB. Older Shimano BB's wore too quickly but some models seemingly lasted forever

Modern disc brakes fail too quickly with their plastic pistons. Older bikes suffered from bad or lazy cantilever set-ups giving them a bad reputation. V-brakes were too snatchy, early disc brakes faded or were poorly designed

For every modern is better argument there is something to say that it isnt, for every older is better argument the same applies.

The rider's capabilities are almost forgotten these days. A competent rider could take just about any bike from any era and ride most of the trail centres (not including DH specific though I dont include that in any argument) without a worry. whereas some who only believe the hype think that its the bike or nothing.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:43 pm 
Gold Trader / PoTM Winner
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Neil wrote:
unkleGsif wrote:
I have always said, that there is yet to be a more opinionated, narrow-minded bunch of arses than cyclists.

You say that like it's a bad thing...


Its not,
I merely (sarcastically) implied it, then qualified it as actually being one of the most positive things about cycling and cyclists....


unkleGsif wrote:
We will never see eye to eye on anything, because its simply so subjective. And that it what makes it so great.... diversity

G




G


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:49 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Location: Moomin Valley
I could carry on - SRAM shifters have plastic internals that bend when forced, buggering them up, old Shimano STI was all metal and could be serviced and put back into use.

Old boutique components failed often, one good bash and the same thing happens now.

Modern frames crack and fail just as often as old and are probably more susceptible to knocks due to their construction.

So. On paper, and back on topic, modern bikes appear to be more value, but costs have been cut somewhere. Good bikes are more expensive due to raw materials and some hikes have been due to demand, like an Orange 5, which has shot up because the market will stand it....


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:26 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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In 2006 one big brand we sold had a range of alu hardtails that year. Some guy came in and said i want to spend £700ish..........the £500 bike in the range was good value......the £700 bike in their range had £200 more on the price even though there was no real upgrade in components and the fork was crap...........but the frame was meant to be more' special' than the lower model......both bikes wighed the same and the frame was dull and lifeless. I tried to tell him buy the £500 one we will put a better fork on and trade in the one already on the bike...no he assumed £700 got him the better steed.

I took a few years break and came back into the trade only to see this as the norm now, heavy , with very very poor forks in a wider price bracket. Different mixes of running gear, but not always better.

Mountain biking still has really good companies who want you to enjoy the ride, but lets face it, it is so big now that lots of bigger companies are just after the profit mountain biking generates.

I feel really sorry for a newbe who has bought with their eyes and belived the guff only to hit the trails and be sorely dissapointed with certain bikes i could mention....the ride of some poor £500 hardtails are no better than a cheap catologue bike the way they ride.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Location: uk
and don't get me started on poor performance disc brakes :evil: what a rip -off


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