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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:50 pm 
retrobike rider
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Jones wrote:
so instead of throwing money at a bike just pay a burly ex para to shout at you a few times a week :lol:


this guy will do it:

http://vimeo.com/42209600


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Question is still there though...all things being equal, no improved fitness etc

If you lose 5lbs from your body, does that leave you in the same boat as losing 5lbs from the bike? Is the loss equal in performance?

I know that in motoring it is always vital to lose unsprung or rotational weight. A kilo from unsprung is worth a lot for handling.

I always used to hear people say 'it'll only help when you carry it'.

My best guess is that in an extreme case, if the weights were reversed and the bike was 10 stone and you 1 stone, you'd never get it off the ground, so substantial weight off the bike is probably more effective than from your body but I have no idea what the ratio is. I would have thought a pound or two here makes no difference but 25lb vs 35lb bike is going to be noticeable in flight.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:16 pm 
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But they are not equal... and never will be

A lb lost on your body will be greater than a lb lost on the bike, in so far as the engine will be able to work much more efficiently, because the rider is fitter


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Usually exercise is required to lose weight and a byproduct of that is you improve fitness but that came from the work not the weight.

I agree to a point carrying the weight has an effect in terms of it needing to be 'fed' or 'sustained' by the body during a workload but losing 5lb is not going to help much unless you are right on the edge of peak physical condition which not many will be.

You don't need to exercise to lose weight, so I still ponder the original question, at smaller levels would you notice it more on the bike or yourself.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:48 pm 
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Magsy wrote:
losing 5lb is not going to help much unless you are right on the edge of peak physical condition which not many will be.


I beg to differ... 5lb "can" make a lot of difference, not just because of the loss of body mass, but because of the positive health benefits associated with it

The original question was one of economics. He has lost 21lbs of body weight, (compared to a bike weight of 24lbs... WOW). Try losing that much from even a heavyweight bike, and then tell me how much it costs.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:49 pm 
MacRetro rider
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And modern bikes are bloody heavy it appears. I recently built a hardtail with a super light frame and forks and was disappointed that it came in a 24lb. But looking at magazines it appears that around 25lb is considered a good weight. I reckon with lighter wheels and tyres I could get down to around 22lb. I'm no weight weenie but as a bit of a lightweight myself I prefer to not have to propel a heavy bike.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:50 pm 
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Magsy wrote:
Usually exercise is required to lose weight and a byproduct of that is you improve fitness but that came from the work not the weight.

I agree to a point carrying the weight has an effect in terms of it needing to be 'fed' or 'sustained' by the body during a workload but losing 5lb is not going to help much unless you are right on the edge of peak physical condition which not many will be.

You don't need to exercise to lose weight, so I still ponder the original question, at smaller levels would you notice it more on the bike or yourself.

Whilst it's true that you don't necessarily need to exercise to lose weight, think about the demographic - most active people, you know the sort ride bicycles, tend to see some improvement in fitness and conditioning having lost a reasonable amount of weight - because there tends to be something of a feedback loop going on.

Point being, you can never ignore the psychology and behaviourism going on.

In my experience, weight savings on bikes tends to be a progressive thing - perhaps it's different if you've spent a lot of money all at once making your mtb more fragile - but that's probably atypical - and truth be told, 30 minutes in, I suspect you're more likely to realise the benefit of weight loss in yourself, and most likely, some uncoincidental improvement in fitness, than a pound or two off your bike.

And if it's more than a couple of pounds off the bike, you have to question it being an ideal candidate, or whether you've just made your off-road bike a little less fit for purpose.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:49 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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I'm fitter this year compared with the previous past few years, and having had all sorts of bikes, basics to exotics, I know that just being out sticking miles on has helped me more than anything.

I have already rode over 700miles more than I did in the whole of 2011, and over 1,000 of them have been on a 35lb steel bike!

As a note though, my 27lb slick wearing hardtail isn't as easy and fast as I'd of expected compared to my fatbike. I'm happy riding either.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:10 pm 
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I understand what you are all saying but I am looking from a pure, no side effect point. Those people who say 'have a shit before you ride and leave your TI bolts at home', are they right or wrong?
Money always comes into the discussion but if it didn't, does losing weight from the bike help (much)?

I weigh 10st10. Previously I have weighed 16st at my highest but reguarly hover at 12-13st. I ride DH, so little effort there, office job, lazy bugger at home. I have never lost weight via excercise, I perfected low carb dieting years ago and weight falls off. I have done mabye 8-10 LC cycles in the last 10 years, I can shed a stone in 10 days.
I know I don't not gain fitness but of course I feel a difference, I am much lighter and my endurance is increased to an extent because I'm not lugging the fat.

I appreciate this is all sounding like I'm just trying to be annoying, I'm not but I've often wondered during a sleepless night that from a pure science POV if you hovered say 5lbs out of a man and put him on a 30lb bike would it be better than taking 5lbs out of the bike. Its a large percentage of total bike weight and must surely effect handling but 5lbs out of a person is tiny.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:26 pm 
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Magsy wrote:
I have never lost weight via excercise, I perfected low carb dieting years ago and weight falls off. I have done mabye 8-10 LC cycles in the last 10 years, I can shed a stone in 10 days.

The majority of weight loss on low carb / keto diets, over that sort of timescale, is water. Don't kid yourself that you're losing anywhere near that amount in bodyfat.
Magsy wrote:
I appreciate this is all sounding like I'm just trying to be annoying, I'm not but I've often wondered during a sleepless night that from a pure science POV if you hovered say 5lbs out of a man and put him on a 30lb bike would it be better than taking 5lbs out of the bike. Its a large percentage of total bike weight and must surely effect handling but 5lbs out of a person is tiny.

So?

Bodyweight plus bike weight still has to be propelled. Conveniently ignoring things that have to be rotated, for a second - like wheels - that mass still has to be moved, not sure I'm getting why you're ascribing greater significance to bike weight in all of that.


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