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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:39 pm 
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tintin40 wrote:
JohnH wrote:
tintin40 wrote:
E.U rules forbid any country from supporting companies like that. Competition rules. If a gov pumps money into a lose making industry then that is classed as unfair competition to the rest of the E.U members.

Correct.
tintin40 wrote:
Who took the GB in to E.U?

Edward Heath.

Wanna know who opposed it?
Margaret Thatcher.


She didn't take GB out once she was in charge.

That's true, but when she was in charge, we were only in the EEC.

This 'trade federation' didn't transform into the undemocratic, corrupt, dictatorial monster that is the European Union until 1992. John "Pro-Europe" Major tried to nudge us toward further European integration by joining the Exchange Rate mechanism, which ultimately tore our currency and his own party apart.

But once Tony Bliar was elected, he took us further into the EU, by adopting the entire social chapter of the EU constitution into British law and selling our gold to buy Euros as a reserve currency.

Here he is, showing his contempt for brutal dictators... ;)

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:53 pm 
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mattbrown wrote:
British Leyland, crap cars nuff said.
look at the Scandinavian countries keep their noses out of all this shit, dont pally up to anyone, and just get on, you dont hear about them starting wars etc, infact you dont really hear them going on about how much they're in debt by


Oh - we're in debt in Scandinavia alright. Compared to you lot, we're still OK though. For now. But we're also paying up to 50% in tax for the privilege. Just think if a british government came up with such a crazy idea!

"Danish" is a dirty word in some muslim countries, due to our involvement in Iraq,Afghanistan and the Mohammed cartoons published by Jyllands Posten.

Basically Denmark has been kept afloat by a state-administered unemployment insurance scheme (£120 a month on top of your tax), which means people don't lose their homes right away should they lose their jobs. But now even that's been cut back. So the secure foundation of the economy is now on pretty shaky ground - as public spending will mean a lot of lower-middle class families find themselves short of cash to pay the bills with.

Can't talk for the Swedes and Norwegians, but it seems like it's downhill all the way in my part of the world.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:10 pm 
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JohnH wrote:
dbmtb wrote:
JohnH wrote:
If Margaret Thatcher hadn't battled the trade unions for control of this country.... well, take a look at France today...


Your point being?

My point being that in pre-Thatcher Britain, coal miners deliberately went on strike at the height of the oil crisis and demanded a 40% pay increase. We had no oil, we had no coal, so the lights went out across Britain -- rolling blackouts. (You might like to ask yourself what that did for communities, hospitals and schools...)

After 1979, it was Margaret Thatcher who stopped this country from being damaged any further by spiteful and vindictive trade union leaders -- the kind of damage that we're seeing in France right now.

dbmtb wrote:
At least the French aren't apathetic. They've been presented with something they don't like and are doing something about it. Not that I agree with them.

Doing what? How does bringing the country to a standstill help France get out of its massive public sector debt?

For decades, the French people have been treated like spoiled children by a paternalistic government -- what Churchill called "the enfeebling tendencies of socialism". The problem for the French people is that economic reality has turned up at the front door and mummy and daddy can't make it go away.

dbmtb wrote:
As pointed out previously, apathy appears to be the British disease. My take is that it's one of the legacies of Thatcherism - that ordinary people no longer feel that what they think matters. That it took a radical shift right for labour to get in - that it doesn't make a lot of difference who you vote for as all politicians are self-serving and the policies they represent are pretty much the same.

I kind of agree with you, but not about the apathy. I think that the legacy of Thatcher is that (unlike the French), we have a population who no longer look to our politicians as parents who'll improve our lives for us. Instead, we have people who get off their arses and improve things by themselves; people like Richard Branson, Alan Sugar, Duncan Bannatyne, Anita Roddick, et al.
And we still have Bob Crowe...
I wouldn't mind having him as my Union leader; £40 k a year, 9 weeks holiday a year (+bank holidays) 32 hour , 4 day week, final salary pension... All for pushing a red button every 30 seconds.
Up the lazy workers! :P


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:13 pm 
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suburbanreuben wrote:
JohnH wrote:
dbmtb wrote:
JohnH wrote:
If Margaret Thatcher hadn't battled the trade unions for control of this country.... well, take a look at France today...


Your point being?

My point being that in pre-Thatcher Britain, coal miners deliberately went on strike at the height of the oil crisis and demanded a 40% pay increase. We had no oil, we had no coal, so the lights went out across Britain -- rolling blackouts. (You might like to ask yourself what that did for communities, hospitals and schools...)

After 1979, it was Margaret Thatcher who stopped this country from being damaged any further by spiteful and vindictive trade union leaders -- the kind of damage that we're seeing in France right now.

dbmtb wrote:
At least the French aren't apathetic. They've been presented with something they don't like and are doing something about it. Not that I agree with them.

Doing what? How does bringing the country to a standstill help France get out of its massive public sector debt?

For decades, the French people have been treated like spoiled children by a paternalistic government -- what Churchill called "the enfeebling tendencies of socialism". The problem for the French people is that economic reality has turned up at the front door and mummy and daddy can't make it go away.

dbmtb wrote:
As pointed out previously, apathy appears to be the British disease. My take is that it's one of the legacies of Thatcherism - that ordinary people no longer feel that what they think matters. That it took a radical shift right for labour to get in - that it doesn't make a lot of difference who you vote for as all politicians are self-serving and the policies they represent are pretty much the same.

I kind of agree with you, but not about the apathy. I think that the legacy of Thatcher is that (unlike the French), we have a population who no longer look to our politicians as parents who'll improve our lives for us. Instead, we have people who get off their arses and improve things by themselves; people like Richard Branson, Alan Sugar, Duncan Bannatyne, Anita Roddick, et al.
And we still have Bob Crowe...
I wouldn't mind having him as my Union leader; £40 k a year, 9 weeks holiday a year (+bank holidays) 32 hour , 4 day week, final salary pension... All for pushing a red button every 30 seconds.
Up the lazy workers! :P


where can I sign up!?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:21 pm 
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JohnH wrote:
After 1979, it was Margaret Thatcher who stopped this country from being damaged any further by spiteful and vindictive trade union leaders.


Well at last someone has mentioned LEADERS, rather than the unions themselves.
(Personal irony is that my Gran always said my Grandad would have been ashamed to be a miner when they striked during the oil crisis, had he been alive. And her doctor when she died was Scargills daughter who is doing very nicely thank-you-very-much.)
But as I previously pointed out, I don't disagree this was necessary. But the end did not justify the means. The same result could have been achieved in other ways.


JohnH wrote:
what? How does bringing the country to a standstill help France get out of its massive public sector debt?


It doesn't. Which is why I wrote I didn't agree with them.

JohnH wrote:
For decades, the French people have been treated like spoiled children by a paternalistic government.


True - but at least they haven't given up on the validity of their collective voice.

JohnH wrote:
we have a population who no longer look to our politicians as parents who'll improve our lives for us. Instead, we have people who get off their arses and improve things by themselves; people like Richard Branson, Alan Sugar, Duncan Bannatyne, Anita Roddick, et al.


The American Dream then.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:12 pm 
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dbmtb wrote:
"Danish" is a dirty word in some muslim countries, due to our involvement in Iraq,Afghanistan and the Mohammed cartoons published by Jyllands Posten.


And it may also be something to do with the fact that you are one of the biggest producers of bacon in the world :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:13 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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American Dream?
come on DBTMB , youll have to do better than that


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:28 pm 
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American Dream "with irony". Not so easy to do on a keyboard.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:44 pm 
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JohnH wrote:
I think that the legacy of Thatcher is that (unlike the French), we have a population who no longer look to our politicians as parents who'll improve our lives for us. Instead, we have people who get off their arses and improve things by themselves; people like Richard Branson, Alan Sugar, Duncan Bannatyne, Anita Roddick, et al.


I understand what you are saying, but just want to remind everyone that Branson and Sugar were fully formed long before Thatcher arrived fully.

These kind of people tend to thrive regardless of the political situation.

:)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:52 pm 
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Blimey...this ones dragging on a bit innit :D Not surprising, it's a pretty emotive subject.

Obviously I am a 'lefty' as some would say...but I'm not blind to Labours weaknesses. I have to say I am bitterly disappointed with Tony Blairs tenure.
For me the biggest disaster in modern politics was the heart attack that took John Smith.

I personally think he had the makings of a great leader and statesman.

I lived through the Thatcher years.... not only does she represent eveything I despise in right-wing conservatism, she represents most things I hate in human beings.

Makes no difference to me today whether so lives or dies...I couldn't care less either way.....my only wish is that it didn't happen 30 years ago...as mentioned in my opening thread.

Now then...lets talk about why we continue to subsidise farming.


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