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 Post subject: Re: The death of my LBS
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:33 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:07 pm
Posts: 1777
Location: muddy fields, usually
shogun wrote:
Getting people onto feeble motorbikes with life-limited bespoke drivetrains is not the 'best hope of getting more normal people out of cars and onto bikes for short journeys'.

https://www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends/ni ... s-10134145
https://insideevs.com/bosch-encourages- ... e-e-bikes/
https://www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends/ni ... d-10133767


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 Post subject: Re: The death of my LBS
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:52 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:26 pm
Posts: 398
Location: French Alps
gradeAfailure wrote:
As long as the assistance stays below a set level and speed, and are pedal-assist, then no, I don't see them being regulated. Above that and they're classed as an electric motorbike, and already fall under current regulation.

What may well happen, given how easy it is to derestrict an ebike (much like a 50cc 30 mph moped, or a 125cc / 11kW L-plated motorbike) is the potential for roadside checks, the result of which, given that a "stealth" derestricted ebike is an uninsured, unregistered, non-type-approved electrical moped exceeding the legal limits, will be seizure of the vehicle. The same will go for accidents, too - you can bet your boots the insurance companies will be all over the wreckage of any ebike that gets run into by a car with a fine tooth comb.

In theory, over here in frogland, I could derestrict the missus' ebike as long as I get insurance and register it. Haven't found an insurer willing to do it, though :) Maybe that's to do with the fact the brakes and suspension are designed for bicycle speeds, not hammering along uphill at 75kmh.

gradeAfailure wrote:
You say it only takes one death; well, we've had them from "traditional" bikes and they haven't been regulated or banned, and there seems to be no indication that this will happen.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... h-cyclists

And anyway, it will only take one death with these newfangled "horseless carriages" and they'll be banned. Then we can get back to walking to the factory, as god intended.


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 Post subject: Re: The death of my LBS
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:46 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:12 pm
Posts: 3268
Location: Yateley, Hants.
gradeAfailure wrote:
"I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft... As for me, give me a fixed gear!" Henri Desgrange



Gears don't provide any outside assistance though do they? These e-Bikes are effectively a low powered electric motorbike. Totally different really. Gears may have seemed back then to be 'witchcraft' but at the end of the day the cyclist still provided all the power.

The regular road type e-bikes are probably easier to regulate as they can just be classed as a powered vehicle for use only on the roads and require insurance to do so. Also to be fair with the assistance they'll probably mix better with traffic that a regular bike. I can see the attraction and totally concede that they are better than cars and motorbikes for the non-cyclists especially for a short commute.

These e-MTB's though aren't likely to sell if they end up being regulated or banned on multiuse paths, fireroads and bridleways. If someone riding one hits and kills a pedestrian/horse/regular cyclist when riding around off road it will happen. They'll end up like those hoverboards which were a big thing for about a year and have all but disappeared now as you can't use them anywhere.
Once people change shop and get the service they desire elsewhere they aren't likely to return, so a couple of e-MTB's in the windows was a good idea, but usurping the rest of the quality MTB range for a shop full of them probably not wise.

They've survived a few challenges from newer and more 'trendy' shops over the years too, with even the current trendy challenger up for sale, so only a few more months until they start to take that business back too.

I had a look at Bird bikes and they look nice, i'd like one a lot, but sadly they are out of my budget. I'm not going to push the economics boundaries on this one as it's a second modern MTB that will definitely play second fiddle to my hardtail 29er.

Carl.


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 Post subject: Re: The death of my LBS
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:09 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:21 am
Posts: 896
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
gradeAfailure wrote:
shogun wrote:
Getting people onto feeble motorbikes with life-limited bespoke drivetrains is not the 'best hope of getting more normal people out of cars and onto bikes for short journeys'.

https://www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends/ni ... s-10134145
https://insideevs.com/bosch-encourages- ... e-e-bikes/
https://www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends/ni ... d-10133767



Great, in five years or so we'll be reading about the need for e-bike waste processing stations.


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 Post subject: Re: The death of my LBS
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:30 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:27 pm
Posts: 659
My local bike shop always has a few expensive e-MTBs. I have no problem with them.

For me the expensive ones are perfect for the middle aged guy (or lass) who wants to re-capture their youth and I suspect are bought by those who might have bought a sports car a decade or so ago instead. They like the idea of cycling, but don't want the pain, sweat and disappointment of not keeping up or struggling up hills. Living in North Wales - I totally appreciate that (even if I don't partake myself).

My missus simply wouldn't ride a bike at all if it were not for her e-bike. She didn't learn to ride a bike at all until her mid 30s. Still lacks confidence and only rides occasionally. But her e-bike has been a revelation to her. She loves it because she can keep up with me comfortably and it gets her out of jams like hill starts, junctions etc.

Another person I know has a heart condition and their e-bike gives them some much needed freedom.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:00 pm 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:32 pm
Posts: 178
Ebikes - you're only two wheels away from a mobility scooter....


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:07 pm 
King of the DuckBoard
King of the DuckBoard
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Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:30 pm
Posts: 24483
Location: weight weenie 26er
Henne wrote:
Ebikes - you're only two wheels away from a mobility scooter....



So true :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:48 pm 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:55 am
Posts: 3428
Location: Dorset
tintin40 wrote:
Henne wrote:
Ebikes - you're only two wheels away from a mobility scooter....



So true :lol: :lol:


If I keep trying to cycle up Dorset's hills on a steel bike with a 53/39 & 11/25 I will need a mobility scooter :)


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 Post subject: Re: The death of my LBS
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:58 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:08 am
Posts: 1081
Location: Basingstoke - Hampshire
drcarlos wrote:
gradeAfailure wrote:
"I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft... As for me, give me a fixed gear!" Henri Desgrange



Gears don't provide any outside assistance though do they? These e-Bikes are effectively a low powered electric motorbike. Totally different really. Gears may have seemed back then to be 'witchcraft' but at the end of the day the cyclist still provided all the power.

The regular road type e-bikes are probably easier to regulate as they can just be classed as a powered vehicle for use only on the roads and require insurance to do so. Also to be fair with the assistance they'll probably mix better with traffic that a regular bike. I can see the attraction and totally concede that they are better than cars and motorbikes for the non-cyclists especially for a short commute.

These e-MTB's though aren't likely to sell if they end up being regulated or banned on multiuse paths, fireroads and bridleways. If someone riding one hits and kills a pedestrian/horse/regular cyclist when riding around off road it will happen. They'll end up like those hoverboards which were a big thing for about a year and have all but disappeared now as you can't use them anywhere.
Once people change shop and get the service they desire elsewhere they aren't likely to return, so a couple of e-MTB's in the windows was a good idea, but usurping the rest of the quality MTB range for a shop full of them probably not wise.

They've survived a few challenges from newer and more 'trendy' shops over the years too, with even the current trendy challenger up for sale, so only a few more months until they start to take that business back too.

I had a look at Bird bikes and they look nice, i'd like one a lot, but sadly they are out of my budget. I'm not going to push the economics boundaries on this one as it's a second modern MTB that will definitely play second fiddle to my hardtail 29er.

Carl.



My girlfriend lives in Crowthorne so we ride Swinley (alot!) Popped into the same shop a few months ago for a couple of spares and got chatting to the owner on a business level (as I used to run a couple of shops in my earlier years). Said then that I was amazed at how complicated the whole bike business had become, the huge range of BB sizes and types, the niche marketing of mountain, all-mountain, freeride etc etc and the rise of E-bikes and how (IMHO) that isn't REAL mountain biking. He said then that they are selling them as fast as they can get them in. Maybe some of the reason is that Swinley is close, and that there is a reasonable amount of money in the area. Maybe in 20 years when I want to continue biking but the body is no longer fully up to it I will look at one, but not yet :-)

If you want to test ride a proper mountain bike or three then pop over to Mountain Trax in Wokingham and speak to Luke.

If you ever fancy a riding pal over at Swinley then drop me a line

Ade


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 Post subject: Re: The death of my LBS
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:15 am 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 29663
Location: in the shed
My local shop went into debt with a supplier who then bought them out. The owner then went to manager and was forever grumpy. Had I known this 20 years ago when it happened I would have supported them more but as I only found this out a week or so ago.


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