Long And Hard Before Buying Diesel!

highlandsflyer

Retro Wizard
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Think!!!!

Is this what we expect from government, anecdotal consumer advice directing our buying intentions?

I am all for it, I love the smell of fresh petrol.

But should the government be interfering directly in such an economically sensitive area as the car market?

I have five diesels and four petrol vehicles right now. Bad me!!!
 
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They interfere with everything else and they do it on behalf of the people.
If they think it will keep us healthier, with the assumption that's what we want, then they should be doing it.
They already interfere to persuade us to use lower emission cars or buy electric, this is just the same meddling.

They're free to change stance as new evidence comes about, or better technology changes the outcome. As has happened with petrol (bar the VW group)
 
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The evidence concerning diesel emissions is not new, the risk to health from NOx and particulate matter is heightened among the very young and those with pre-existing respiratory conditions.

If you have children why would you drive a diesel ? If you're a cyclist why would you drive a diesel ?

Many companies have been revising their purchasing criteria since the introduction of DPFs and Euro 6 as diesels have become more expensive to maintain; and low mileage consumers have experienced expensive failures.

Scrappage is being considered for older (pre-Euro 4) diesels.

Big subject...I've written a paper on it.

Jon.
 
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roadking":2exmdnt7 said:
The evidence concerning diesel emissions is not new, the risk to health from NOx and particulate matter is heightened among the very young and those with pre-existing respiratory conditions.

If you have children why would you drive a diesel ? If you're a cyclist why would you drive a diesel ?

Many companies have been revising their purchasing criteria since the introduction of DPFs and Euro 6 as diesels have become more expensive to maintain; and low mileage consumers have experienced expensive failures.

Scrappage is being considered for older (pre-Euro 4) diesels.

Big subject...I've written a paper on it.

Jon.


As an old motorcyclist, I can say that the evidence for diesel pollution has been around for at least forty years, with no-one wanting to take on the motor lobby.

The push to get people to drive diesel cars post 2000 was due to milage and economy at the expense of the environment, a bad choice but one that the post Thatcher "Me" generation took to their heart. Now we see pollution and disease growing and are surprised......and its all someone else's fault.

Scrappage is a way to encourage the population to change, but they knew the risks, the evidence was there, just legalise against diesel, including road haulage, the same as cigarettes.
 
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It is high time to move back to horse and cart.

Counting motorbikes that are road legal I am actually on the right side of 2/3rds petrol.

However, vans and 4x4s primarily used in the hills are not significantly adding to latent pollutants.

Getting dirty motors off the roads of the cities is where it is at. I am all for reducing all motorised traffic in the cities, and expanding low emission transport use.

More money invested in cycleways and closing off roads would make sense, and for shorter journeys walking ought to be made a pleasant alternative by improving walkways and giving priority to pedestrians where possible.

The legislation should be looking long term. Expecting people who have invested in, what is for for many of them, the largest expense other than their home in buying a diesel vehicle to sell it at a loss merely to satisfy the government's latest advice, is barmy.

Targetting diesel users as somehow irresponsible; talking about them as though they are bad parents, etc., or somehow suggesting they are anti cyclist merely by having chosen to drive diesels, is nonsensical.

Many made their purchasing decision whilst diesels were promoted as frugal less polluting options.

Many such people are cyclists.
 
As said in another thread, scrapping a few old peugeot 206's wont cure the problem. PN10 particulates come from tyres and brake pads too, its just rarely mentioned if at all.

Electric cars are just as bad for the environment due to the amount of hydrocarbons and other nasties in their manufacture let alone where they charge from. The rare metals used in EV's still need mining and processing - using a lot of energy that goes unmentioned - possibly generating more Co2 emissions than building a conventional car...!

The car has to become unfashionable like smoking and drink driving for anything to change - manufacturers wont stop making diesels, look at all the new models available for 2017, all available with diesel engines, huge 'sport utility vehicles' that claim 50+ mpg yet will barely get to that.

Why on earth have the virtually identical Jaguar F-Pace/ Discovery Sport/ Range Evoque? The Audi Q7/ Porsche Cayenne/ VW Touareg/ Bentley Bentayag - absurd vehicles that nobody really needs but must haves in the marketing.

Nothing will happen that will actually fix anything, the car is in charge, whether powered by smugness, petrol, bio-diesel or the body odour of Elon Musk.
 
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Ah but electric cars centralise pollution and that makes it easier to control the population, let alone the noise reduction you get locally.

It's all new tech and the moment, so needs time like the old fashioned petrol and diesel cars.

It's more efficient to generate electricity than micro manufacture it along with motion in every car.
 
You seem to have skip read the mining of the rare earth elements bit that is the basic part of EV. They dont run without them!
 
I love my diesel and do heavy milage use it to tow my caravan etc. I managed 63mpg over 500miles last week, A 2.0l petrol would use more fuel over the same journey and so consequently they would probably produce a similar amount of pollution so where's the argument for petrol in my case ?
 
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I do wonder if the numbers stack up for plug in electric vehicles.

Wind energy at the cost of dumping thousands of tons of highly contaminating concrete into fragile habitats, shipping turbines across the oceans in boats manufactured in highly polluting shipyards in the east. The manufacture of the turbines themselves. Nuclear energy with its massive long term expense and complication, feeding into the grid to compensate for all the unreliable wind allocation. The coal stations kept ticking over to cover the unreliable wind. The gas stations providing most of the energy, ramped up when the wind drops.

The dream that all these cars are somehow running on 'clean' energy is just that. It is merely displaced pollution.

If we want to get serious about reducing pollution we ought to make driving more expensive mile for mile.

Taking the car to the shops instead of getting on a bike with a trailer should be counter intuitive.

We fool ourselves that driving to a supermarket saves us money, when we could walk to the corner shop and take the higher prices, yet be better off if we calculated the true cost of driving, never mind the health benefits.

Of course driving 'cleaner' cars is a good idea, where we aren't replacing decent cars merely for the sake of it.

Thing is, the real message coming from the government ought to be 'stop driving'. Full stop.

I have reduced my annual mileage to less than ten thousand miles, and am using trains and buses more often. I rarely drive a vehicle without some passengers.

We could all do that to some extent, and it would make a genuine difference.

Retrobike is a great site to promote cycling, as many people we need to get back to cycling would be encouraged by the bikes they loved in their youth.

Cycling is cool again. Thanks to sites like this, and our success in the sport.

Necessity plays its part, but it doesn't mean cycling has to be as grey and dull as the idea of utilitarian transport might sound as a concept.

Look at all those cool cargo bikes. What is an everyday part of life in parts of Asia and such is rendered an uber cool novelty here.

Yet the numbers are growing, and there will be a point where jumping on such a bike to hit the shops will be much preferable to ordering online or driving out to some satellite shopping centre, for all of us, not just the hipsters with their waxed beards.
 
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