Name the frame(s)

retroislandbikes

Retro Newbie
Can anyone identify these frames, I bought them to use the parts from but the frames are a mystery.

The first one is a steel frame, tig welded, the seat tube it externally butted at the top which is a new one to me. The frame number is U10514459.

The black one is aluminium with a machined chainstay.

Any ideas?
 

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Re:

Although it doesn't really look like an Ibis I have an Ibis that has the exact same rear chainstays as the black frame.
 
Following up on my own statement, I seem to recall that Schwinn made the rear triangle on my Ibis, so maybe the black frame is a Schwinn.
 
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