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 Post subject: Re: Modern Seiko Divers
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:49 pm 
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i believe in fixies wrote:
Fudd wrote:
For a watch to be COSC certified (Rolex etc) it must stay within 4 secs per day.


To be COSC certified it must also be Swiss, something the Swiss watch industry came up with to protect itself when the Japanese mechanical watches started winning observatory awards. (Just search for Seiko VFA, amazing watches). The Seiko GS watches undergo stricter and more lengthy tests than COSC certified Swiss watches.


Seiko gave them a teriffying ass-kicking: within about 2 years they were placing second - and they were using a watch they were willing to sell in large numbers and guarantee, while the Swiss were entering special models.

Quote:
Thinking of buying a Rolex? Have a read:

http://people.timezone.com/library/horo ... logium0036


...Ahh the famous Rolex Explorer review.

(Like the Seiko review I link to below, this is a very unusual review in that it is actually written by someone who understands how watches work and took the review watch apart. Instead of the usual "My new watch is pretty!" thing.)

Seiko and Rolex have a very similar design philosophy for mechanicals - they design more for robustness than anything else. It's just that through a freak of history (Blancpain withdrawing from the dive watch market that they started, allowing people to think the Rolex Sub was the original, and Rolex's luck in being Bond's watch) Rolex have been able to charge crazy prices. The design of the Explorer is excellent. It should just cost a lot less and should have been made somewhat more carefully.

It's interesting to compare it to a review of a Seiko Monster here:

http://www.thepurists.com/watch/features/8ohms/7s26/

..Similar philosophy, just taken a bit further; eg Seiko make their own damn lubricants and are willing to plastic parts where they are superior to metal:

The 7S26 uses Seiko's patented Diashock shock protection [3] on the balance pivots, has a soft, plastic spacer ring [4] closely integrated with the movement and a relatively low mass rotor [5] that is unlikely to bend or break even with very severe shocks. The plastic spacer ring, combined with the sheer massiveness of the case, provides a great deal of additional shock resistance and is a more economical solution than a metal spacer ring as well. This combination of economic and sensible engineering is a trend that persists in almost every facet of the design of the 7S26 movement....

While there is often much disdain amongst watch enthusiasts for plastic components in mechanical wristwatches, I propose that there are instances where it is acceptable and possibly even preferable. One particular area in which plastic is a perfectly logical solution is the calendar mechanism. These are parts that rotate at very slow speeds (or sometimes intermittently) and with very little torque for the majority of their rotation. This combination of features makes them controversial with regards to lubrication. While lubricating them significantly will increase the drag on the movement and possibly ultimately stop the watch, leaving them sparsely lubricated or dry will ultimately result in wear. Plastic is an ideal solution for these components because it is light and self-lubricating.


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Seiko Divers
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:55 pm 
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Great write up in this thread.8)
I have a 007 myself and the lume is fantastic. Blows my Omega Seamaster out of the water. :lol:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Seiko Divers
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:17 pm 
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firedfromthecircus wrote:
Great write up in this thread.8)
I have a 007 myself and the lume is fantastic. Blows my Omega Seamaster out of the water.


..Which is ironic, because Seiko supply the Swiss watch companies with their lume, including I believe Omega. Most of them don't use as generously as Seiko do on their divers though. Omega are probably the most generous of the majors - whether or not a Seiko or an Omega diver will be brighter is a real model buy model fight.

Seiko style lume charges from the sun - or an LED torch pointed at the watch face for a few seconds - and then lasts for hours, gradually dimming. There's an alternative using (safely) radioactive tritium tubes used by Traser and at the high-end (at least in cost) Ball that doesn't dim during the night, but which gradually wears out as radioactivity diminishes. In theory, the half life of the material is 10 years, so the lume should go down by half in ten years. ..In practice, thse watches all use tubes from the same factory, and the cheap model I got to test went effectively dark in 3 or 4 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Seiko Divers
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:30 pm 
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..And thanks for the warm reception. If anyone wants to know more, I'll do my best to answer. For harder questions than I can handle, this is the place to go:

http://www.thewatchsite.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Seiko Divers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:45 pm 
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But wait - there's more! Seiko have three sub-brands. From most to least prestigious they are Orient, Pulsar, and Lorus. Of these only Orient sell divers afaik. These start at less than $200 and go up to at least $1000:

Image

Seiko are also know for their chronographs - watches with built-in stop watches - and this is something of a speciality for Pulsar too. This model was widely issued in the RAF and is easy to find online:

Image

If you want something smaller than a 7 or a Monster, but which still uses the same tough, replaceable, low maintenance mech, then you can consider a Seiko 5. The "Fliegers" are especially nice - these are quite thin watches and are 38mm across. You can sometimes find at only around $100 from an Asian ebay seller.

Image

These come in at least 4 colours:

Model : SNKH63 / SNKH63K / SNKH63K2 - Black dial
Model : SNKH65 / SNKH65K / SNKH65K1 - Cream dial
Model : SNKH67 / SNKH67K / SNKH67K1 - Ivory dial
Model : SNKH69 / SNKH69K / SNKH69K1 - Green dial




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 Post subject: Re: Modern Seiko Divers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:25 pm 
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The SNKH63 is a cracking watch for very little money. I think I paid about £70 for mine s/h on ebay. It gets worn mostly when I'm on my mtb as a heavy watch shakes about a bit and quickly gets uncomfortable. Here's how it looks now with new hands and dial from 10watches.com and a domed and coated sapphire from Yobokies -

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Seiko Divers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:47 pm 
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Good point! And great watch. Yobokies stocks stuf for modding the snk's - and can mod a watch you buy there too. I have a yobokies snk mod:

Image

...And 10watches is the other main supplier of modding components.


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Seiko Divers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:03 pm 
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Agreed on the lume on Seikos - I have only one true Seikos divers, an orange solar SNE109P1, a picture in my Seiko thread, but should really take a better one. I've got several kinetics, but none from the divers range, but again great lume on them. And one Seiko 5 / 7S26.

I was a bit disappointed in the lume on my recent G-Shock, the normal Casio Atomic / wavecepter / tough solar I had first has better lume. I've got an Edifice with disappointing lume too.

My orange Seiko solar diver, though, is exceptional in the dark.


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Seiko Divers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:03 pm 
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I'd never even heard of modifying watches as a hobby! Amazing.

I have an (probably totally lame) early Tissot Touch I bought tax free in NH years ago, and a couple of 'military' Wengers, but some of these pics have me wanting to reach for the wallet.

<edit> what's the difference between the SNKH and SNK ranges? They look superficially the same, but there's a price difference. So much I don't know...


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Seiko Divers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:39 pm 
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apache wrote:
what's the difference between the SNKH and SNK ranges? They look superficially the same, but there's a price difference. So much I don't know...


The difference is that I had a vicious cat on my lap playing "Attack the hand that types." Same watch!

Three things to remember:

- These are (except where specified otherwise) mechanicals, and so less accurate than quartz

- Watches with replacement faces have much less lume than stock Seikos

- One a watch has been openned for modding (which is pretty simple stuff by the standards of some mechanics on here) there is chance that dst got in, lube evaporated, etc, all of which might mean you lose some of those 20 years between services

But if you are going to get a mechanical watch, then I'd say a Seiko is the way to go - they're incredibly better value than the Swiss, and the best designs have fantastic personality. A Monster, a 7, or an SNKH are especially good either as collection starters or solo watches. Don't be scared of sticking with a stock watch because you can change the personality incredibly with a strap. Here's an SNKH on a really nice after market leather strap:

Image


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