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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:50 pm 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm
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Location: New Forest, UK
I think that's exactly right - you get accustomed to it and learn the particular frequencies that it gives extra detail compared to the previous kit.

Which all goes to show that double-blind testing is the only way to compare stuff.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:14 pm 
Gold Trader
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Location: South Hams - Devon
I've just been given a Marantz CD6000 which apparently is good for modding and quite fancy having a tinker as I like the idea of having a CD player again. I tend to stream everything with a Squeezebox at present which does sound better - as does my lovely old Rega Planar turntable, so anyone done some tweaking to this model or offer any ideas of how to improve it ? Looking online there's quite a lot of detailed info but not knowing my DACs from my op-amps or clocks a bit of hand holding before I plunge in with a soldering iron would be good.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:26 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:36 pm
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I have had kit that seemed to sound better with time and other stuff that sounded the same right from the start...........but like many i used to think it was running in that did it, it has taken me a whiles to get with, 'the brain' is a clever thing, but sometimes it needs ajustment time, and can just reject something as 'bad' just because it doesn't follow the usual way something sounds when you listen to the same piece of music etc...

BUT

.....of course we must not confuse this with something that actually is better sounding kit...........BUT why doesn't our brain tell us the same, ie '' it's different, ''bad'' before saying arh yes this is better quality..........cos sometimes we instantly go wow that sounds better ?!?!?

SO

Why do we sometimes have to get used to something and other times instantly like the better quality ???


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:07 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:30 am
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Location: Malvern
trek_y wrote:
I've just been given a Marantz CD6000 which apparently is good for modding and quite fancy having a tinker as I like the idea of having a CD player again. I tend to stream everything with a Squeezebox at present which does sound better - as does my lovely old Rega Planar turntable, so anyone done some tweaking to this model or offer any ideas of how to improve it ? Looking online there's quite a lot of detailed info but not knowing my DACs from my op-amps or clocks a bit of hand holding before I plunge in with a soldering iron would be good.


Get an account with 'Hifi Engine' and download service manual. CD6000 is a late-ish one so may be surface mount components, in which case it will be a tw*t to work on. Once you've got those points sorted, post up your thoughts :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:13 pm 
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I think 'running in' is exactly as said above. It's more a case of 'running in' your brain and ears. There is no real physical mechanism to attribute perceived change in solid state electronics during running in. (Other than obvious ones such as drift in bias currents in power amplifiers, but that stabilises in minutes, not months, and in op-amps, in microseconds!)

I've had stuff that sounds great one day, and lackluster the next. If you have a read of some of the psychoacoustics papers out there, experts reckon your mood can affect perceived sound quality quite radically, as does alcohol! I must admit, music always sounds fantastic after a few beers...

Fully agree that double blind listening tests are the only way to decide which is nicest, and measurement is the only way to decide which is most accurate. The outcome of those two approaches may not always coincide ;) - This is why neither hifi manufacturers OR audiophiles like that test! Audiophiles don't like to be proven wrong, manufacturers don't like to have their kit slated without proof by dumb-ass audiophiles. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:45 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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''I've had stuff that sounds great one day, and lackluster the next''.........indeed i have experienced this, I have just put in down to not really being in the mood for music that day........


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:48 pm 
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greenstiles wrote:
''I've had stuff that sounds great one day, and lackluster the next''.........indeed i have experienced this, I have just put in down to not really being in the mood for music that day........


And apparently, your theory would be dead right. Best approach I figure is to make your replay system as accurate as possible (or to plagiarise Doug Self - make it 'blameless') and allow psychoacoustics to do the rest.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:20 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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So what 'creates' the differences in hi fi, that can produce, more or less atmosphere, synergy, prominance, emotion..attention...etc...or are they already in the music or can hi fi exagerate these/create these if they were not in the origial recordings ......i can understand the concept of electronics, helping clarity, speed, dynamics, etc........but how do hi fi makers add the subtle differences that can make or break a listening experience ?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:32 pm 
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Location: Malvern
Have had a think and done a bit of maths. I reckon I can build a headphone amp with an active gain control (saves using silly priced log potentiometer as you can simulate log response electronically) and 'multipath' output stage which calculates as producing <0.001% THD into 30 ohms across the audio band. THD goes down with higher impedance phones, and will be unmeasurable with 600 ohm phones.

Would look a bit different from your latest aquisition - no less than 16 NE5532s used in a multipath configuration to get the current drive / low THD and ultra-low noise!

It's not just a theoretical exercise, it can be built at a 'reasonable' price. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:43 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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pm sent about something !


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