The HiFi chat, build and modification thread!

legrandefromage":thbfpg13 said:

You are welcome to bring it all round one evening?

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Thanks,I appreciate thw offer.

But, after several hours of listening, all is well.

I cant for the life of me understand it, has my incompetence hit a new low? Ah well it works il leave well alone.

I took the top off the Rotel amp this morning, the switch for left, right, mono and stereo was very dirty, that seems ok now too.

Go proper retro. Switch rotel to mono, run both speakers on right channel.

ok, let's say you have hifi system comprising cd - amp - speakers. on which one of those 3 components is worth spending the most? and if have you done a comparison of changing one component with one that is say 5x more expensive, did you hear the difference?

Cd player/ source first or its shit in/ shit out.

Most amps 'sound' fine unless really cheap and nasty.

Most speakers sound fine, again unless cheap and nasty.

02gf74":1046brbs said:

ok, let's say you have hifi system comprising cd - amp - speakers. on which one of those 3 components is worth spending the most? and if have you done a comparison of changing one component with one that is say 5x more expensive, did you hear the difference?

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The old Linn rule used to be spend the money on the front end and then less on amp and speakers. This was particularly true with their LP12 marketing.

Speakers usually have the greatest impact on the sound for many reasons which relate to the design and implementation: size, number of drivers, x-over order, db/m, infinite baffle, ported, planar, electrostatic etc etc.

Electronics do make a difference but it is often much more subtle and very dependent on how revealing the speakers are. Arguably it is a waste if the speakers can't expose improvements.

So I'd be inclined to chose the speakers fist as these are very room dependent, then build up the system around them and the room. Different speakers require different amps....high efficiency horns can be driven by a 5 watt singled end valve amp, low efficiency planar speakers require large powerful amps with lots of current. Amplifier damping also affects how the amp controls the speaker.

The cd player undoubtedly has a sound too, however much of this can be tuned using stands, feet, interconnects etc.

Yes I have heard the difference in components.....a £8K phono stage blew my mind with a £400 cartridge.

You are over 'hifi' -ing it a bit.

Interconnects do not change the audio unless very long or so badly shielded they pick up RF. Same with speaker cable unless its buggers about with impedance/ capacitance and inductance - 'flat' speaker cable can do this. Bi-wiring also farts around with the load on the amplifier.

It is unlikely these days to go out and buy horn loaded speakers or flat panel simply as where are you going to get them from?

The sort of budgets here are usually whatever ebay or gumtree throws up. Anything Japanese from the last 30 years with a decent power supply will give most what they want from whatever speakers they have or find.

A decent CD player wont need anything further doing unless again, its a bit cheap and nasty. Most of the 'tuning' would have been done by the design and manufacture.

A separate DAC may help but if the CD dumps a load of crap into its digital output, nothing will change that.


And a small point about the LP12, it was originally a budget deck never intended to be the over priced monster it is today.

Gerard":2cqwou48 said:

The old Linn rule used to be spend the money on the front end and then less on amp and speakers. This was particularly true with their LP12 marketing.
.

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Let me guess, at the time Linn said this, their only product was the LP12 before they made amps, cd players and speakers.

I don't think there is going to be one definitive answer, hence the discussion but I find that speakers make the biggest difference to the sound and amps (only familiar with solid state ones) the least.

I generally change an item rarely and don't do before after comparisons, I know a2nd gen Sony CD player whilst not sounding noticeably difference to the cd/dac I'm using now, was tiresome to listen for any length of time, so there is something subtle going on.

It can be a bit more than subtle. Cheap players suffer from jitter and radio frequency interference, that is handled better the further you go up the food chain. It makes a whole heap of difference with a decent source.

Amplification isnt normally an issue unless you are constantly listening at extreme levels, then you get distortion.

A separate dac wont make much difference if the transport isnt any good.

DVD players are a good source of CD spinning as they often have pretty decent dacs and transport mechs.

Just remember though, CD players have been using CD-Rom drives since around 1995.

Have a look in here for a bit of Hifi porn

http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/?strBr ... rPage=Info

and

http://www.thevintageknob.org/

Sitting here listening to my cheaply assembled HIFI system thanks to advice from LGF and others. I took the plunge with a good DAC as above and have never looked back.

Just to give you an idea, all bought via interweb since august:

Rega RP1 turntable £169 new, mission cyrus 1 £40, Mission DAD5 CD Karma from avalonian, Sony CDP XE330 bought new in about 1990something (Cds used as transports) Mission 731 speakers for £25 local pickup, Yamaha Concert YST SW90 sub £35 oh and a rega phono stage for £40 Arcam DAC £120 from ebay.

The DAC while relatively cheap was the biggest jump compared to straight CD or apple lossless from laptop. It all goes via usb or digital/optical to DAC then cyrus one

Took me a couple of months of trawling

that's it. All for under £400 sounds amazing to me.

Do it. If you want small speakers i have some TDL nucleus 1 that you can have for postage or pickup Karma and a pint.

legrandefromage":gjh503w6 said:

You are over 'hifi' -ing it a bit.

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Sorry I was just answering a question based on my experience

legrandefromage":gjh503w6 said:

Interconnects do not change the audio unless very long or so badly shielded they pick up RF. Same with speaker cable unless its buggers about with impedance/ capacitance and inductance - 'flat' speaker cable can do this. Bi-wiring also farts around with the load on the amplifier.

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Whilst I agree re RF & capacitance, I have to disagree that cables don't change the audio/sound. In my opinion they do have a 'sound' just as capacitors and resistors in certain circuits do. It can be subtle but it is there.

legrandefromage":gjh503w6 said:

It is unlikely these days to go out and buy horn loaded speakers or flat panel simply as where are you going to get them from?

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You can and I have....I run my Maggie Planars bought from a shop after listening. On my 3rd pair.

legrandefromage":gjh503w6 said:

The sort of budgets here are usually whatever ebay or gumtree throws up. Anything Japanese from the last 30 years with a decent power supply will give most what they want from whatever speakers they have or find.

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I don't disagree that PSU is critical. Question of course is what is considered 'decent'

legrandefromage":gjh503w6 said:

A decent CD player wont need anything further doing unless again, its a bit cheap and nasty. Most of the 'tuning' would have been done by the design and manufacture.

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Again what is considered decent. Most are built to a cost. so savings are made as ultimately when it comes to mass market bean counters win and 'tuning' be damned.

legrandefromage":gjh503w6 said:

A separate DAC may help but if the CD dumps a load of crap into its digital output, nothing will change that.

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True unless of course it is the clock and DAC which are crap..then it helps.

legrandefromage":gjh503w6 said:

And a small point about the LP12, it was originally a budget deck never intended to be the over priced monster it is today.

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Again I disagree. It wasn't budget, but middle ground. Yes it was much cheaper than the Japanese 'statement decks', so is an LP12 today compared to a Techdas Airforce One. For example (though first built in the early 1970s) n 1978 an LP12 with arm cost £203 ex VAT. Sansui SR222 (classic budget deck) cost £87.15 incl. VAT, Trio KD1033 £69.77 plus VAT.