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 Post subject: Kila
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:29 am 
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She's in for an acid dip today, so will see if a data tag drops out!


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 Post subject: Re: Weight
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:27 pm 
retrobike rider
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Wold Ranger wrote:
Sorry should have qualified, both only 16 inch frames, cindercone and lavadome both weigh just under 4.2 pounds bare weight, fully painted.
An 18 is considerably bigger than a 16, as the ctc on a 16 seat tube is only 13 inches and top tube 21. Both weighed on digital scales so won't be far out. I had an 18 which was too big and this weighed 4.6 on the same scale. But getting sidetracked here!
I was told by a dealer once that many Kona frames were re badged in the factory if they were short of a specific model and that only the components were different and the Explosif had different tubes. The Kilauea picture above has the same drop outs and detail as my more recent Lavadome, so maybe they were the same frame?
I gather it was luck of the draw sometimes you got a better or lower frame with different paint on it!

The 97 Kilauea had a 28.6 top tube, as Ratbane's visibly has. The Lava Dome of that year and other years had a 31.8 top tube - it's easy to see from how far the top tube wraps around the seat tube. So that is definitely not a Lava Dome and there is no way whatsoever of passing off any Lava Dome as a 97 Kilauea.

The dropouts on Ratbane's bike were used only for the Kilauea, Explosif and Hot in 1997. They weren't used on the Lava Dome until several years later.

It is illegal under US and other consumer protection legislation to pass off any item as something superior, so you're alleging that a huge firm like Giant would collude with Kona to break the law by painting inferior frames as more expensive ones whenever it suited Kona. Why would they take such a risk?

Ratbane's frame is definitely a genuine 97 Kilauea. The weight is 0.1lbs heavier than I would expect, but that is probably down to the scales used, it is still way too light for a Lava Dome.

And the difference in weight between a size 16 and 18 is c0.25lbs. In the case of a Lava Dome, 4.55 and 4.8 respectively.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:42 pm 
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should be in posession of my eagerly awaited 97 Kilauea by the weekend :D

As much as I'd like to contribute further to the weight discussions I've no intention of stripping the thing just to put it on the scales, sorry..! :lol: I will weigh it complete on some dodgy old digi bathroom scales though.. the same ones told me my 2001 Eldridge weighed 24.2lbs with RC31s which rather pleased me!

my attention has been drawn to a 97 Cindercone now though - stop me quick!!


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 Post subject: Re: Weight
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:44 pm 
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Anthony wrote:
Wold Ranger wrote:
Sorry should have qualified, both only 16 inch frames, cindercone and lavadome both weigh just under 4.2 pounds bare weight, fully painted.
An 18 is considerably bigger than a 16, as the ctc on a 16 seat tube is only 13 inches and top tube 21. Both weighed on digital scales so won't be far out. I had an 18 which was too big and this weighed 4.6 on the same scale. But getting sidetracked here!
I was told by a dealer once that many Kona frames were re badged in the factory if they were short of a specific model and that only the components were different and the Explosif had different tubes. The Kilauea picture above has the same drop outs and detail as my more recent Lavadome, so maybe they were the same frame?
I gather it was luck of the draw sometimes you got a better or lower frame with different paint on it!

The 97 Kilauea had a 28.6 top tube, as Ratbane's visibly has. The Lava Dome of that year and other years had a 31.8 top tube - it's easy to see from how far the top tube wraps around the seat tube. So that is definitely not a Lava Dome and there is no way whatsoever of passing off any Lava Dome as a 97 Kilauea.

The dropouts on Ratbane's bike were used only for the Kilauea, Explosif and Hot in 1997. They weren't used on the Lava Dome until several years later.

It is illegal under US and other consumer protection legislation to pass off any item as something superior, so you're alleging that a huge firm like Giant would collude with Kona to break the law by painting inferior frames as more expensive ones whenever it suited Kona. Why would they take such a risk?

Ratbane's frame is definitely a genuine 97 Kilauea. The weight is 0.1lbs heavier than I would expect, but that is probably down to the scales used, it is still way too light for a Lava Dome.

And the difference in weight between a size 16 and 18 is c0.25lbs. In the case of a Lava Dome, 4.55 and 4.8 respectively.


Cheers Anthony.

It's definitely a genuine Kila frame. I'll get it reweighed on other scales. It is very light to hand, feels lighter than my old '98 18" Kila frame, and '99 Explosif frame.

Do you know how much the 99 Hei Hei weighed?

What's your view on repainting in non-original colours. I'm pondering a '95 look in white. Not as a fake '95, (as the dropouts would be different), but purely from an aesthetics point of view. Is it sacrilege?


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 Post subject: Re: Weight
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:47 pm 
retrobike rider
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ratbane wrote:
Do you know how much the 99 Hei Hei weighed?

Not for a fact, but I believe that a size 18 weighed c3.6lbs, and a King Kahuna maybe 3.9ish

ratbane wrote:
What's your view on repainting in non-original colours. I'm pondering a '95 look in white. Not as a fake '95, (as the dropouts would be different), but purely from an aesthetics point of view. Is it sacrilege?

Hmm, the tubes were oval in 1995 as well. And the decals were square/silver grey. And there was a spiral on the head tube.

I'd never use the word sacrilege, it's only a bike, but my personal opinion is that if something looks like a fake then the intended effect is spoiled. So I personally would stick to the correct decals for the year of the frame, even if I was changing the colour. That way the bike would look like a white 97 Kilauea, and quite nice too. Whereas if it looked like a fake 95 Kilauea, I personally would be unimpressed. But that's just me.

My favourite 97 Kilauea is the extremely rare Kilauea SE, with Z2 fork and frame colour-matched to it, as below.


Attachments:
1997 Kilauea SE size 18 by Hutt River NZ.jpg
1997 Kilauea SE size 18 by Hutt River NZ.jpg [ 106.56 KiB | Viewed 1488 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Weight
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:25 am 
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Anthony wrote:
ratbane wrote:
Do you know how much the 99 Hei Hei weighed?

Not for a fact, but I believe that a size 18 weighed c3.6lbs, and a King Kahuna maybe 3.9ish

ratbane wrote:
What's your view on repainting in non-original colours. I'm pondering a '95 look in white. Not as a fake '95, (as the dropouts would be different), but purely from an aesthetics point of view. Is it sacrilege?

Hmm, the tubes were oval in 1995 as well. And the decals were square/silver grey. And there was a spiral on the head tube.

I'd never use the word sacrilege, it's only a bike, but my personal opinion is that if something looks like a fake then the intended effect is spoiled. So I personally would stick to the correct decals for the year of the frame, even if I was changing the colour. That way the bike would look like a white 97 Kilauea, and quite nice too. Whereas if it looked like a fake 95 Kilauea, I personally would be unimpressed. But that's just me.

My favourite 97 Kilauea is the extremely rare Kilauea SE, with Z2 fork and frame colour-matched to it, as below.


Thanks for that.

She's gone in for spraying today, and is being done in Yam81, which is a slightly more pearlescent blue than original, but same shade. I couldn't bring myself to change the colour to white.

Forks will be grey P2s. Hardware mostly silver.


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 Post subject: Kila
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:38 am 
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With the paint now off, I can see the frame number, which is:


H7N2 6498


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 Post subject: Re: Kila
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:12 pm 
retrobike rider
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ratbane wrote:
With the paint now off, I can see the frame number, which is H7N2 6498

Mine is H7-H0 7321. So it is consistent, which is no surprise, but apart from that it just tells us that both frames were built at the Hodaka factory in 1997. Aside from the H7, I think the rest of the number has significance only for the Giant production process. It doesn't tell us that it is a Kilauea, and it doesn't mean anything to Kona.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:57 am 
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Hey, Anthony I have a Kona Kilauea 97 SE with matching forks for sale. Are you or anyone you know interested?


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