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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:25 pm 
BoTM Winner
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:23 pm
Posts: 2765
Location: NW England
Anthony wrote:
Wow, I’ve never seen a fork with so little trail as that. Look how much closer the front wheel is to the front of the chain rings now – you’ve reduced the wheelbase by like two inches or something, all coming off the trail.

actually you've made a common mistake, the forks look like they have less rake (fork offset) which will mean the hub is further behind the imaginary contact point of a line drawn through the headtube i.e. giving more trail which should actually result in more stability as its harder to get the wheel to turn away from its stable setting of pointing straight on.
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:32 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:22 pm
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stevet1 wrote:
actually you've made a common mistake, the forks look like they have less rake (fork offset) which will mean the hub is further behind the imaginary contact point of a line drawn through the headtube i.e. giving more trail which should actually result in more stability as its harder to get the wheel to turn away from its stable setting of pointing straight on.

Thanks, but why then did Kona have a greater amount of rake/offset on the P2s fitted to Hahannas and Fire Mountains than to higher models in the range? (1.74 vs 1.54) And why did Bontrager have special Rockshox forks made for his bikes with a rake/offset of only 1.25? Are you saying that a Hahanna has quicker steering than an Explosif and way quicker than a Bonty Race Lite?

Are we sure that more trail means slower steering, or could it be faster?


Last edited by Anthony on Tue May 20, 2008 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:53 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
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Location: Moomin Valley
easy children - just compared the MF forks with the Sepicialzed ones and the MF's are a good 2.5 inches further back.

Handling is 'modern'.... :lol:

Anyway, fitted some wider bars and this has helped - going out on a long ride tomorrow, see how it does.


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 8:10 pm 
Anglian Deputy AEC
Anglian Deputy AEC
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Location: Livin' in a dust bowl
legrandefromage wrote:
... going out on a long ride tomorrow, see how it does.


Not your local then? a different pub perhaps?


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 8:16 pm 
Retro Guru
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Location: Atherton, Manchester
Excellent refurb, Congrats 8)


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:45 am 
BoTM Winner
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:23 pm
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Location: NW England
Anthony wrote:
Thanks, but why then did Kona have a greater amount of rake/offset on the P2s fitted to Hahannas and Fire Mountains than to higher models in the range? (1.74 vs 1.54) And why did Bontrager have special Rockshox forks made for his bikes with a rake/offset of only 1.25? Are you saying that a Hahanna has quicker steering than an Explosif and way quicker than a Bonty Race Lite?

Are we sure that more trail means slower steering, or could it be faster?


Without wishing to hijack this thread further ... its an area I've read up on because it interests me but I'm no expert. I found a link to a thread on google groups which is relavent and includes a post by KB himself regarding the bontrager geometry.

http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=856807356.4680%40dejanews.com&rnum=7

sounds like its not just as simple as one thing 'speeding up steering' OR slowing it down. Pity he didn't have time to go into it further as I'd love to read more.


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:30 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:22 pm
Posts: 7306
Location: Hove
stevet1 wrote:
Without wishing to hijack this thread further ... its an area I've read up on because it interests me but I'm no expert. I found a link to a thread on google groups which is relavent and includes a post by KB himself regarding the bontrager geometry.
http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=856807356.4680%40dejanews.com&rnum=7
sounds like its not just as simple as one thing 'speeding up steering' OR slowing it down. Pity he didn't have time to go into it further as I'd love to read more.

Very clever of you to find those words of wisdom! I don't think we're hijacking the thread. After all, my notion that the big offset/short trail on the 'beginners' bikes' in the Kona range was to make them less twitchy and easier to ride is bang in line with LeGrandeFromage's report that radically reducing the trail on this Specialized had made it very twitchy. [And I assume he meant on the way to the pub, as we can safely ignore whatever he thought about it on the way home.]

I don't pretend to understand about geometry either, but I did note that KB was talking about fast cornering, where you don't actually turn the handlebars, so maybe trail is less important. Another factor is that LeGrandeFromage hasn't changed the stem, so his weight through his hands is now 2.5" further forward in relation to the front axle and that may have almost as big an impact on how twitchy the bike feels as a few glasses of Squaddicott's Old Peculiar down at The Dog and Duck.


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 2:19 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
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Location: Moomin Valley
wider handlebars has added more leverage to the steering compensating for the dodgy forks.

It rides... well, it rides like a normal steel sorted hardtail. Theres not much more to report.


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