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 Post subject: 1995 KHS TiLite
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 9:16 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:52 am
Posts: 87
Location: Midlands
So, I bought another KHS. Thats not a surprise as I own a few already. Except that this one is unlike the others as it is Titanium, my favourite metal for bike bits BITD as there was no way I could afford a Ti bike as a poor student at that point in time.

I stumbled across it on ebay by myself recently. Bid on it, won it then found a thread on here commenting on it : viewtopic.php?f=4&t=366773

So here are the pics copied from the advert:

Nice side view
Image
View from beneath. Could FM be a sponsored riders' initlals?
Image
I need some rear brake bosses:
Image
Tyre Rub:
Image
Top tube dent:
Image

That was about a month or so ago. All I had was a frame and no knowledge of what the spec of the bike originally was. There is literally no knowledge out there of this bike other than a handful of people on here in the last 10 years also trying to find out more about theirs to no avail. It is known they are from Litespeed, built in 1995 and most likely sold as frames as they aren't in the catalogue or catalog as they call them over the pond...

From the RB ebay thread I was advised I should be looking at building it with XT M737 and Mag21's as good for a 95. And of course I'm not going to do that. As such I've acquired a full XTR M900 groupset for this frame. I had a nice Bontrager Ti handlebar in the stash. I've acquired a nice Ti Syncros seatpost and a Litespeed Ti Saddle (which makes a change for me as Flites are my normal standard). I've acquired a NOS Ti Stem that is as shiny as the frame, its a Ballistic and I've never heard of them but that isn't saying much. I've acquired a 107mm Royce Titanium BB for the M900 crank. In the stash I have a pair of wheels with an XTR M900 rear and a silver Hope Ti front hub with silver Mavic x517 rims with double butted spokes. They are very nice indeed and inreally nice condition. I've got a pair of new re-issue Smoke and Dart tyres with amber sidewalls too. Should be very nice. In my infinite stupidity I've managed to buy some Rockshox Judy DH's with 80mm travel which should go nicely on here. The only bit missing is a headset which will be a 1 1/8" Chris King in an undetermined colour, silver to match the frame, black as that seems to be the most popular colour for sale or red to match the forks.. Who knows...

I'm hoping to get this one built this year but am in no mad rush as I've a few more projects in the queue ahead of this, the 93 Montana Team from Wadsy (I just had to buy that) and the 93 Raleigh Torus LX in no particular order...

Hopefully it should look something like this spec when finished:

Frame:17" KHS TiLite 1520grams. Oh yeah!

Fork: Rockshox Judy DH - 1 1/8"

Headset: Chris King 1 1/8" Aheadset
Stem: Ballistic Titanium 120mm (very shiny as NOS!)
Handlebar: Bontrager Titanium 560mm
Grips: not decided yet.
Barends: Not feeling the need but I have some Airborne Titanium ones in the stash somewhere if I do..

Brakes: XTR M900
Brake Pads: XTR M900 C
Brake Cables: Shimano XTR (grey)
Brake Levers: XTR M900

Shifters: XTR M900
Front Derailleur: XTR M901 31.8
Rear Derailleur: XTR M910
Derailleur Cables: Shimano XTR (grey)
Cassette: XTR M900
Chain: Shimano
Cranks: XTR M900 175mm
Crank Bolts: XTR M900 - D'oh!
Chainrings: XTR M900
Chainring bolts: XTR M900
Bottom Bracket: Royce Titanium 68mm/107mm
Pedals: TBA.. Some form of SPD. Preferably with Ti spindles.

Hub Skewers: Hope Titanium - The very early ones with Hope name cut into the flat bit.
Rims: Mavic x517 Silver
Hubs: XTR M900 Rear / Hope Titanium Silver Front
Nipples: Haven't checked!
Spokes: double butted iirc
Tyres: New re-issue Panaracer Smoke and Dart with amber sidewalls
Tubes: Lightweight. 1.5-2.3"

Saddle: Litespeed with Titanium rails :-)
Seatpost: Syncros Titanium 27.2
Seatpost Binder: Hope 31.8 (IIRC) Alloy

Bottle Bolts: will get 4x ally ones to replace the very long steel ones.
Rear brake bosses: Will have to get some Titanium ones for this as currently mia. Will invariably order the wrong size thread if given a choice..

Weight: Have expectations of very light!

I do feel the need to throw some trick titanium bits into this build. I have a Titanium bolt to replace the big steel one in the XTR rear mech, could have sworn I have some Titanium crank bolts somewhere too. Probably near the X-Lite Titanium brake bolts which are also somewhere too. I have some time to find more bolts and things to shave as much weight off this one without affecting its strength or longevity.

Will get some pics up of the components in due course and weigh them too where I can.

So what does the panel think?

Cheers

James

Edited to change fork travel from 100 to 80 mm - D'oh!


Last edited by TheEasyLife on Wed May 31, 2017 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1995 KHS TiLite
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 9:34 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:28 pm
Posts: 625
Lovely frame and great plan.

Comment on the fork - 100mm travel judy dh - that must be xl or dho? If it's single crown dh, then max they came with was 80mm. Even that is too long for this frame, it should have max 63mm (mag21 lt or judy in standard length). The problem isnt the travel as such, but the length of the fork relative to the geometry of the frame, how long a fork it's designed for.


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 Post subject: Re: 1995 KHS TiLite
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 10:10 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:52 am
Posts: 87
Location: Midlands
mtbmaniac wrote:
Lovely frame and great plan.

Comment on the fork - 100mm travel judy dh - that must be xl or dho? If it's single crown dh, then max they came with was 80mm. Even that is too long for this frame, it should have max 63mm (mag21 lt or judy in standard length). The problem isnt the travel as such, but the length of the fork relative to the geometry of the frame, how long a fork it's designed for.


Oh dear, I am going mad as I bought the 97 Judy DH's as advertised at 80mm travel. D'oh! Dunno where 100mm came from and will edit previous post in a second. I've got some 98 Judy XC's in the stash too. They are probably more appropriate then. SL's would be nice but I already have one yellow KHS you see.. Shame as I was quite liking the look of the red legs. I'll have to get them both measured up and see the difference. Have seen a few pics on here or elsewhere with them with Judys, just not DH's.. Dunno if that is significant or if fewer DH's were made/sold BITD and much fewer of these frames made/sold too.. At least there is some red on the XC legs..

Cheers

James


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:43 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:13 pm
Posts: 8787
Location: Tredavoe, Cornwall
I agree about the forks, I think this bike needs a Mag 21... whatever you do go for, it's going to be a great bike.


ps I have a Mag 21 going begging!


al. :D


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:34 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:07 pm
Posts: 1747
Cool frame,was XTR M950 first released in 95?


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 Post subject: Re: 1995 KHS TiLite
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:40 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:52 am
Posts: 87
Location: Midlands
Mag 21's were from 93-97 according to here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RockShox Wheras the Judy's are from 95-98 for the DH and 95-01 for the XC and SL.

XTR M950 was from 96-97 according to here: http://www.fa-technik.adfc.de/Herstelle ... en.html#95

I've been looking for pics and details of this frame online since buying it and of the few pics that I can find, most appear to have front suspension forks that look to my untrained eye to be of a longer length than my Judy's. I do appreciate that just because you can make something fit, it might not work as the manufacturer orginally intended.. One of the most rewarding and frustrating aspects of my job is trying to get third party industry standard components tested and certified on industry standard systems...

reference pic 1: With Judy SL's!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=180852
reference pic 2:
viewtopic.php?p=906517

For the record, I've nothing against Mag21's. I'd love some for my 93 KHS Montana Team. But that build deserves a decent pair of SL's which I'm looking at ballpark of £300 for. Then another £300 for this bike as this will be of a higher spec than the Team and I've suddenly spent £600 on 2x forks which isn't VFM in my books. I did warn you guys I emigrated from Yorkshire to the midlands didn't I? :-)

I'm gonna stick with the Judy's I've already got. If other people have run SL's on these frames and not complained of handling issues then I can't see why I'd have problems. Its months away from being built so not an issue yet.

Cheers

James


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:03 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:51 am
Posts: 514
Damn!!!

I'm currently in the process of building a '93 Montana Team (frame & forks are at the sprayers). Now I have another goal after that. That ti frame looks fantastic. Really looking forward to seeing this built.


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 Post subject: Re: 1995 KHS TiLite
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:40 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:52 am
Posts: 87
Location: Midlands
Had 30 minutes spare last night so ventured into the garage with the kitchen scales :-)

I weighed what I have. Results below in grams:

Frame 1520
Judy DH 1455
Stem 132
Handlebar 142
Headset 150

Seatpost 211
Saddle 201
Seat post clamp 47

Front wheel 775
Rear wheel 1295

Skewers 98

Royce BB 193
M900 CS 739
Fr mech 125
Rear mech 222
Brakes 341
Levers 402

Tyre F 597
Tyre R 614
Inner Tubes 400


I have estimated the headset and the inner tubes. I think 150g for a headset is a reasonable estimate. When I buy one I'll find out how close I am and update the list. I still have some AirB latex inner tubes from the mid 90's and they were 130g IIRC which was silly light back then. So I've assumed 200g per tube until whatever I bought gets here and I can measure them. The rear wheel also includes the M900 cassette if you were thinking that is heavy!

To save you getting out the calculator the above comes to 9.659Kg. Or 21.29lb. If I assume the new inner tubes are of a similar weight to my old AirB ones, I'm then at 9.519Kg which is a ludicrously silly 20.98Lbs. Of course I don't have the brake and gear cables in the above list so I have a sneaking suspicion that I could end up with a sub 22lb FS bike when finished. I'm now rather excited about such a prospect. I'm also very seriously thinking of moving this one from the last position in my resto list to the top now.

Interestingly the Shimano UN90 BB only weighs 40g more (without bolts) than the Royce (with) but feels much heavier. My (cheap) kitchen scales don't lie though. I have a stash of various Ti upgrade bolts so (at great expense) am confident that I can still shave off some weight here and there :-). If only it was so easy to loose weight on myself... I now need to get in shape to give this thing a good thrashing.

Cheers

James


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 Post subject: Re: 1995 KHS TiLite
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:08 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:08 am
Posts: 638
Location: Suffolk
Nice project. I should think you can keep it at the 10kg or just below mark which is a great weight IMHO. My Torus & Vit are both at a fraction below 10kg.
I once managed to get my Scott (2001/2 model) down to about 8-8.5kg....silly. Just bounced around all over the place. Parts failed. It was a mess. I was a fully signed up member of Weight Weenies back then!


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 Post subject: Re: 1995 KHS TiLite
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:56 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:52 am
Posts: 87
Location: Midlands
And the latex inner tubes landed this morning. Average weight of 128g each apparently so I'll call that 260g for the pair.

A quick bit of googling reveals that a Chris King 1 1/8" aheadset is 95g.

So I need to loose 140g off my inner tube guesstimates and 55 off for the headset from 9659 which is 9464 (20.86lbs) then add 335g for the chain which is on my spreadsheet but didn't get copied over for some reason..

So this takes me to 9799 (21.61lbs) plus cables and I've realised I've not got pedals on the list also. So I bought some Titanium spindled pedals for good measure....

If I can acquire a decent used Chris King headset for sensible money in the next week then I'll move this to the top of the list of my projects. Am thinking silver to match the polished frame or red to match the Judy DH's..

Cheers

James


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