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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:08 pm 
West Midlands Deputy AEC
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Also - contact 'garethrl' on here he bought my 1989 Raleigh Team jersey off me recently and I think had some links to these bikes BITD.

That one in the picture Carl posted some how says 'custom' to me - something about the arrangement at the top of the seat stays/top tube/seat QR and short(?) chain says etc. Interested to know more - a 753 team frame would be some find if they existed!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:18 pm 
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Dyna-Tech 2080 was bonded 753, which they claimed was 20% stronger than brazed. A couple of folks on here have said it was only sold in road form but that 1991 Youtube vid shows a 2080 Barrie Clarke race MTB :wink:

A survivor of those would be a rare beast. I can understand manufacturers avoiding 753 on MTBs, given the ease of writing it off and potential warranty costs... Although Raleigh had plenty of warranty problems anyway!

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:21 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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Well now im confused....?

What do you mean ease of writing it off....??? Higher tensile strength and lower weight.....?..... :?

And im pretty dam confident manufacturers didnt avoid The flagship tubeset for fear of warranty claims either...... :facepalm:

Not that this is really of any relevance, as the this frame predates dynatech anyway, hence my reference to Reynolds 753 and not 2080.... :D


Last edited by sinnerman on Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:32 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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nevadasmith wrote:
That is really nice - this is what you need:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-RARE-Suntou ... 484f5954d2

Full NOS 1989 XCD group set. I bought one and it arrived very quick and got in under customs nose some how - long since sold it on now :( Bit pricey but it's all there....

Alternatively I found some pics of the Team bikes - they look to have used the XC9000 stuff - the four finger brake levers as pictured in sinnerman's posts (I have a spare pair of those ;) ) and the same calipers that SJS sell a full set of for £25ish quid (the SE ones). When I get home next week I'll scan he pics onto your thread.

Watching this build with interest - it would be a great addition to the BS thread 8)


I saw that XCD group but I haven't got the funds to buy that at the moment if I had there would be no discussion it would be on it's way. Funnily enough I have a set of those brakes XC9000 SE brakes as they carried on to 1990's XC Comp and Pro and they were going on this, what I think will happen is that I will build it now with the 1990 Suntour parts I have with a view to finding the right stuff and collecting it over time and then once I have it all swap it over.
I've been waiting nearly 25 years to ride one of these, so I'm not going to delay it over a years difference in parts.

@LGF, that's the ATT23 version isn't it? Dependable old workhorse type of deal but not very sprightly. Seen loads of them for sale but the 501 and 531 versions are much rarer.

Carl.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:45 pm 
West Midlands Deputy AEC
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drcarlos wrote:
nevadasmith wrote:
I've been waiting nearly 25 years to ride one of these, so I'm not going to delay it over a years difference in parts


Sensible! The '9O suntour drive chain stuff works muck better too. Let me know if you're interested I the levers.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:13 pm 
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sinnerman wrote:
What do you mean ease of writing it off....??? Higher tensile strength and lower weight.....?..... :?

And im pretty dam confident manufacturers didnt avoid The flagship tubeset for fear of warranty claims either...... :facepalm:

Just pointing out they did later briefly use 753 for some race machines (1991) so highly unlikely they'd used it off-road before, let alone sold it to Joe Public to bash against trees and rocks.

Repairing thin high-strength heat-treated tubes is a bugger, so the chances of an off-road spill writing off a frame is quite high. The higher-strength of steel (PER SQ INCH) allows the tubes to be made thinner/lighter, it doesn't necessarily make the overall tube/frame much stronger/stiffer than 531 :wink: It arguably does make the frame more fragile when abused.

If the frame was built too strong/stiff it would be bone-shaker and heavier than necessary... What did Colin Chapman of Lotus say: "Any car which holds together for more than one race is too heavy" :lol:

All this talk of materials is forcing me to relive the materials part of my degree, which I'd mostly forgotten having gone into IT, anyway back on topic, kinda...

drcarlos wrote:
The only other one in this size I ever saw was the one hung on the wall of Fleet Cycles in 1989

If it was hanging there in October 89 I probably saw it too! All I remember was lusting after a Scott in the window with spare spokes on the chainstay :oops: My dad insisted on a lugged frame though, after my lugged Raleigh racer saved me in a head-on crash with a car :shock:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:22 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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lrh wrote:
sinnerman wrote:
What do you mean ease of writing it off....??? Higher tensile strength and lower weight.....?..... :?

And im pretty dam confident manufacturers didnt avoid The flagship tubeset for fear of warranty claims either...... :facepalm:

Just pointing out they did later briefly use 753 for some race machines (1991) so highly unlikely they'd used it off-road before, let alone sold it to Joe Public to bash against trees and rocks.

Repairing thin high-strength heat-treated tubes is a bugger, so the chances of an off-road spill writing off a frame is quite high. The higher-strength of steel (PER SQ INCH) allows the tubes to be made thinner/lighter, it doesn't necessarily make the overall tube/frame much stronger/stiffer than 531 :wink: It arguably does make the frame more fragile when abused.

If the frame was built too strong/stiff it would be bone-shaker and heavier than necessary... What did Colin Chapman of Lotus say: "Any car which holds together for more than one race is too heavy" :lol:

All this talk of materials is forcing me to relive the materials part of my degree, which I'd mostly forgotten having gone into IT, anyway back on topic, kinda...

drcarlos wrote:
The only other one in this size I ever saw was the one hung on the wall of Fleet Cycles in 1989

If it was hanging there in October 89 I probably saw it too! All I remember was lusting after a Scott in the window with spare spokes on the chainstay :oops: My dad insisted on a lugged frame though, after my lugged Raleigh racer saved me in a head-on crash with a car :shock:



Mate for god sake, how many times do you and i have to cover the same ground.

What is all this continuous NONSENSE, about Reynolds 753 not being used before 91 and not being sold to the joe public........ :facepalm: And yes i am YET again referring to mountain bikes NOT road.

And how did you possibly get a degree if you dont open your eyes and ears..... :roll:

P.S for someone who doesnt like scene bikes, YOU AINT DOING BAD.....pmsl.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:25 pm 
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A good friend of mine who owns a local Bike shop and used to work on the Pro circuit for Mavic, also did some spanner wagging on the UK Mtb scene for Raleigh. (I've watched him build and true a wheel in under 20 minutes :shock: ) He told me, a number of Raleigh frames were custom built from Reynolds 753, for the team riders, but they were prone to breakage, which didn't bother the sponsered riders much of course, the low weight and responsive ride was a big advantage though! They deffo used 753. :D


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:04 am 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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Wold Ranger wrote:
A good friend of mine who owns a local Bike shop and used to work on the Pro circuit for Mavic, also did some spanner wagging on the UK Mtb scene for Raleigh. (I've watched him build and true a wheel in under 20 minutes :shock: ) He told me, a number of Raleigh frames were custom built from Reynolds 753, for the team riders, but they were prone to breakage, which didn't bother the sponsered riders much of course, the low weight and responsive ride was a big advantage though! They deffo used 753. :D


It was certainly an experimental time with frame builders, angles, stay lengths, brake placement, butting lengths, tube mixing/tube manufacturer mixing, Road tubes being used on mountain bikes etc as dedicated tubes at this level were yet to arrive...etc.

It really would have surprised me if the Elite class didnt use Reynolds 753 in 89, and road specific used for the mountain bike team. They would certainly have gone through Many bikes and had more than one, the frame number on Barrie clarkes is testomony to that.

The Dave Lloyd "Chaos Theroy" is road specific Reynolds 753, availiable to the public in 89/90.
The Roberts White Spider "ultralight" was taken to the extreme and was only built to last one race season.

Given Raleighs extensive use of Reynolds tubing, the time in history we are talking about, and the newly formed mountain bike team, i would be amazed if they used anything else too.... 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:44 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Made a bit of progress with this now, a good clean and t-cut then got all the Suntour parts off my Courier Comp (which is in turn being treated to an excellent condition Mountain LX group) and have sourced:
A 135mm T-bone type stem from a Stumpie that will be powder coated yellow (I checked out Gravymonsters Avanti and wanted something with a similar look that would fit me).
A fairly generic Raleigh 28.6 alloy seatpost (similar to the original).
A set of black Tioga Alloy bars (not sure yet whether to get powder coated yellow or not).
A nice condition Turbo saddle.
A pair of NOS Victor Pro Skinwall tyres (quite light for old school tyres at about 600g each).
Still need to sort:
A cable set, some bikes have silver others black, will probably go with the black.
Grips, probably my favourite Ritchey WCS grips I think.
Pedals, Suntour will be a total nightmare and too much, so may look for some Tiogas or even Deore 1's to refurb.

Will try and add pictures at the weekend as it's looking good already, with some nice proportions.

Carl.


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