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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:24 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:48 pm
Posts: 1409
Location: Edinburgh
Hmmm plot thickens.. Can't recall any Explosif in this colour with
Those decals which were used 94/95/96.. Either
Possibly respray/new decals or 95 lava dome/new decals ..

Anthony is the man you need ..His knowledge on kona
Is second to none ..


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:36 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:22 pm
Posts: 7306
Location: Hove
simonr2011 wrote:
Plus one wrote:
simonr2011 wrote:
Plus one wrote:
Is the paint original ? 95 cindercone was this colour

Yes paintwork looks original.

Are decals original too ? White or silver ? Original silver points to 94 hahanna

Decals also look original and are white

Thanks for your pm Simon - I might as well answer it here. The clues I can see from those photos are:

a. the dropouts indicate 94 or later
b. the gear cable routing indicates no later than 96
c. the straight seat tube and round top tube indicate it isn't a 94-96 Explosif
d. that means the rear V-cable stop is not original, which in turn means the paint and decals are not original and the stop was brazed on when it was repainted
e. if it weighs 4.2lbs even with two headset cups, it is too light to be anything below a Kilauea
f. the straight seat tube indicates it isn't a Tange Prestige Kilauea

If all that is true, the only possibility left standing is a 1996 Kilauea (which had a Columbus Cyber tubeset).
The weight is still quite low for a 96 Kilauea but sometimes the enamel paint jobs you get with a respray are a few ounces lighter than the original powder coat.

Here is a photo of a 1996 Kilauea with its original paint.
As you can see, it has kinked chainstays to maximise tyre clearance. The Cinder Cone didn't have this feature.
You may be able to spot other features in the photo to confirm or deny.


Attachments:
1996 Kona Kilauea frame in size 18.jpg
1996 Kona Kilauea frame in size 18.jpg [ 149.71 KiB | Viewed 916 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:18 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:58 am
Posts: 39
Location: Bristol
Anthony wrote:
simonr2011 wrote:
Plus one wrote:
simonr2011 wrote:
Plus one wrote:
Is the paint original ? 95 cindercone was this colour

Yes paintwork looks original.

Are decals original too ? White or silver ? Original silver points to 94 hahanna

Decals also look original and are white

Thanks for your pm Simon - I might as well answer it here. The clues I can see from those photos are:

a. the dropouts indicate 94 or later
b. the gear cable routing indicates no later than 96
c. the straight seat tube and round top tube indicate it isn't a 94-96 Explosif
d. that means the rear V-cable stop is not original, which in turn means the paint and decals are not original and the stop was brazed on when it was repainted
e. if it weighs 4.2lbs even with two headset cups, it is too light to be anything below a Kilauea
f. the straight seat tube indicates it isn't a Tange Prestige Kilauea

If all that is true, the only possibility left standing is a 1996 Kilauea (which had a Columbus Cyber tubeset).
The weight is still quite low for a 96 Kilauea but sometimes the enamel paint jobs you get with a respray are a few ounces lighter than the original powder coat.

Here is a photo of a 1996 Kilauea with its original paint.
As you can see, it has kinked chainstays to maximise tyre clearance. The Cinder Cone didn't have this feature.
You may be able to spot other features in the photo to confirm or deny.


Cheers, for the information. Now I know what it is better get building and riding it :-)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:28 pm 
BoTM | Gold | PoTM
BoTM | Gold | PoTM
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:20 pm
Posts: 8684
Location: Sunny Cornwall
You'll be happy with that then 8)

Sometimes Anthony's knowledge and process of elimination is akin to a
Miss Marple mystery played at 10 times the normal speed!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:09 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:58 am
Posts: 39
Location: Bristol
raidan73 wrote:
You'll be happy with that then 8)

Sometimes Anthony's knowledge and process of elimination is akin to a
Miss Marple mystery played at 10 times the normal speed!


Yep happy, now to get rid on the 1993 Lavadome to raise funds for this build. Then again I have enough to get this on the road already which means I can put it towards a road frame to replace my broken one :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:41 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:23 am
Posts: 74
Hi,

Can The Master (Anthony) offer me any advice on the frame in the attached pictures? It _looks_ like a Kona, but doesn't have the kona stamps on the drop-outs.

If it is a kona, from reading this forum, I think I've deduced:

- triangle holes in the drop-outs make it 90-93
- lack of braze-on for the rear brake routing makes it >91
- the flared seat tube mean Tange Prestuge tubing?

After that I'm stuck. The top tube has a bit of a taper to it - it's definitely narrower at the back and I think not quite round.

The seat-stays don't have any kind of indentations, either on the inside or the outside.

The greenish paint job looks possibly original, or at least professionally re-done. The grey fade on the seat stays and the blue around the top of the seat post are sprayed on top.

On the BB shell there are two numbers: F3011650 around one side, and
31 11 across the bottom in larger numbers.

Many thanks for any clues!!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:41 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:22 pm
Posts: 7306
Location: Hove
badger17 wrote:
Hi,

Can The Master (Anthony) offer me any advice on the frame in the attached pictures? It _looks_ like a Kona, but doesn't have the kona stamps on the drop-outs.

If it is a kona, from reading this forum, I think I've deduced:

- triangle holes in the drop-outs make it 90-93
- lack of braze-on for the rear brake routing makes it >91
- the flared seat tube mean Tange Prestuge tubing?

After that I'm stuck. The top tube has a bit of a taper to it - it's definitely narrower at the back and I think not quite round.

The seat-stays don't have any kind of indentations, either on the inside or the outside.

The greenish paint job looks possibly original, or at least professionally re-done. The grey fade on the seat stays and the blue around the top of the seat post are sprayed on top.

On the BB shell there are two numbers: F3011650 around one side, and
31 11 across the bottom in larger numbers.

Many thanks for any clues!!

I think it must be a 1993 Kilauea. The serial number says it was made in the Fairly works in January 1993, and the bulge-butted seat tube and ovalised top tube narrow it down to a Kilauea.

It should have the same tapering and ovalising in the down tube as well - both tubes are 30 x 34mm at the front, tapering to 27 x 30mm at the rear. The colour should originally have been a red to silver fade, as this example below. If it's a size 18, it should have an 11cm head tube. The frame is not suspension-adjusted, so really best with a 39cm a-c Project 2 fork, or a short-travel suspension fork and shortish stem.


Attachments:
1993 Kilauea size 18.jpg
1993 Kilauea size 18.jpg [ 180.54 KiB | Viewed 451 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:23 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:23 am
Posts: 74
Many thanks! Sterling work. Those tube measurements are spot on. It must be an 18". Out of interest, how does one distinguish a kilaeu from an explosif of this era? Did the 93 explosif have the ribbed down-tube?

I agree about the forks. I had been trying to decide if it was worth restoring - it had been in my attic for years with a completely stuck seat-post that I had butchered. I eventually found someone who would melt it out with oxy, hence the dodgy blue respray around the seatpost. I built it up quickly with whatever bits I had to hand, just so I could try it out. It immediately felt like a classic Kona, although the steering was definitely screwy from the rockshox.

The only thing that makes me hesistate to throw a bit of money at fixing it up is that there's a fair bit of rust, and a nasty ding to the underside of one of the seatstays (pic attached). I think it's probably OK though. Other thing is a reckon it's a touch on the big side. I'm 5"8' with a 31" inside leg - just about OK?

Last question? Anything to choose between powdercoat and spray paint? I've got places nearby that will do both.

So - next stop is a respray followed by a pair of project 2's I think!!

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:24 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:23 am
Posts: 74
photo


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dingphoto-s.JPG [ 146.1 KiB | Viewed 434 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:56 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:22 pm
Posts: 7306
Location: Hove
badger17 wrote:
Out of interest, how does one distinguish a kilaeu from an explosif of this era? Did the 93 explosif have the ribbed down-tube?

Yes, your frame has basically the same Tange Prestige Concept tubeset as the Explosif used from 1990-92, and that was carried on with the Kilauea from 1993-95. The Explosif went to the Tange Ultimate tubeset for 1993 and 94, and used the ribbed Ultimate Ultrastrong down tube. Some history here if you're interested.

badger17 wrote:
I agree about the forks. I had been trying to decide if it was worth restoring - it had been in my attic for years with a completely stuck seat-post that I had butchered. I eventually found someone who would melt it out with oxy, hence the dodgy blue respray around the seatpost. I built it up quickly with whatever bits I had to hand, just so I could try it out. It immediately felt like a classic Kona, although the steering was definitely screwy from the rockshox.

Obviously it depends on your likes and needs as to whether it's worth restoring. I have a 95 Kilauea with P2s and use that as my standard conveyance around town - went to Tesco on it earlier on. But you can just as easily go across country on it - a bit slower than modern bikes down hills obviously, but light and simple and overtakes anything up a hill.

Even though it isn't a suspension-adjusted frame, you could use a good fork like an earlyish Pace RC36, which has 70mm travel and an a-c of 430mm (say 415 sagged). Combine that with a 9-10cm stem and it will still steer well. Fit a 12cm stem and it won't. Fit an inferior fork and it won't. This could be a good option if you feel that a size 18 is on the long side for you. A size 17 may be your perfect size, but there's only 12mm in it on the top tube, and a shorter stem more than compensates for that.

My only concern is that you mention oxy. Seat posts should be cut out really. A steel tube that has been welded once shouldn't be super-heated again, hence all repairs are brazed rather than welded as the temperatures are lower. Not the end of the world, but for long life I would recommend getting a long and well-fitting post, so that it goes down into the tube well below the top tube junction, so as to minimise the lateral stresses on the top of the tube.

badger17 wrote:
The only thing that makes me hesistate to throw a bit of money at fixing it up is that there's a fair bit of rust, and a nasty ding to the underside of one of the seatstays (pic attached). I think it's probably OK though. Other thing is a reckon it's a touch on the big side. I'm 5"8' with a 31" inside leg - just about OK?
Last question? Anything to choose between powdercoat and spray paint? I've got places nearby that will do both.
So - next stop is a respray followed by a pair of project 2's I think!!

Neither the rust nor the dent look particularly serious to me. Whichever way you get it painted, they will shot blast it to a clean surface first. You could get the dent filled at the same time. If you want to use V-brakes, it's a good idea to have a rear V-cable stop brazed on as well.

Powdercoating is cheaper and more practical, as enamel chips so easily especially if you ride hard off road. You need to make sure though that you use a company that knows how to paint a bike, masking etc, as those who don't will basically throw it in with a load of industrial bits and pieces that are just getting an industrial coating and it doesn't matter what they look like.

Sorry to go on a bit, going out to ride another bike now! Best of luck, hope you enjoy your Kilauea.


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