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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:48 pm 
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sinnerman wrote:
I thought the same Mike, but hesitated in using the word "prototype" just in case i got hammered for it.


Not sure why you would, can't think of a better word for it :)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:51 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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[quote="feetabix"]Carl......thankfully we have you involved with our site!...longlive the good old fashioned geek!..... :wink:




Stands proudly for national anthem..... :D[/quote


Sorry Fellas.... :oops:

Always had an interest in steel, and in Particular British frame builders, i didnt intend for the posts to seem geeky, just always felt the British bikes were always a little less coveted than they ought to be, considering what thought and effort went into them.

With all this said and done, not every one is aware of the efforts made by our English frame builders, in a market naturally dominated by America for obvious reasons.

And for whats its worth, i dont see any reason why NevadaSmiths british frames, should be percieved as anything less than on par with its American counter parts.

My example being Keith Bontragers Off road, and Ross Shafer"s Ala Carte....., both high end handbuilt frames, (this example being the closest comparison i could think of), with similar retail price points.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:13 pm 
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Someone needs to add some photos of a Smart Tart to this thread.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:08 pm 
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In a general build quality desirability way they are on a parr, but the reason the Salsa and the Bontrager specifically are so revered and have continued to be highly desirable are because they set a precedent and dictated frame design. The Salsa's use of 71/73 geo was the benchmark for almost all frames from 89> I stopped paying attention and Keith's single-minded philosophy of getting the most out of a frame, a material, and a rider are why many people (myself included) consider the Race/Lite to be the best riding frame ever.

Thats not to say that the British builders didn't impress on history, or do anything to advance frame/bike design, but they were on the whole established road frame builders, borrowing other peoples geometry ideas and working to catch up with their US counterparts.

Im lucky enough to have a few American classics and a few British ones, and to my eye the craftsmanship (for that is the most relevant word when regarding these frames) of the Roberts and Lloyd exceeds that of the Salsa or Bontrager.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:19 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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Rod_Saetan wrote:
In a general build quality desirability way they are on a parr, but the reason the Salsa and the Bontrager specifically are so revered and have continued to be highly desirable are because they set a precedent and dictated frame design. The Salsa's use of 71/73 geo was the benchmark for almost all frames from 89> I stopped paying attention and Keith's single-minded philosophy of getting the most out of a frame, a material, and a rider are why many people (myself included) consider the Race/Lite to be the best riding frame ever.

Thats not to say that the British builders didn't impress on history, or do anything to advance frame/bike design, but they were on the whole established road frame builders, borrowing other peoples geometry ideas and working to catch up with their US counterparts.

Im lucky enough to have a few American classics and a few British ones, and to my eye the craftsmanship (for that is the most relevant word when regarding these frames) of the Roberts and Lloyd exceeds that of the Salsa or Bontrager.



Well said... 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:17 pm 
Gold Trader
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Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:15 pm
Posts: 659
Location: Aberdeenshire
Both look like great projects. Its good to see folk like yourself keeping them alive.

I'd certainly echo others sentiments on handmade British frames. Lots of quality, skills and building heritage have gone into the frames you have there.

I'm looking forward to your updates.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:08 pm 
retrobike rider
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sinnerman wrote:
feetabix wrote:
Carl......thankfully we have you involved with our site!...longlive the good old fashioned geek!..... :wink:




Stands proudly for national anthem..... :D[/quote


Sorry Fellas.... :oops:

Always had an interest in steel, and in Particular British frame builders, i didnt intend for the posts to seem geeky, just always felt the British bikes were always a little less coveted than they ought to be, considering what thought and effort went into them.

With all this said and done, not every one is aware of the efforts made by our English frame builders, in a market naturally dominated by America for obvious reasons.

And for whats its worth, i dont see any reason why NevadaSmiths british frames, should be percieved as anything less than on par with its American counter parts.

My example being Keith Bontragers Off road, and Ross Shafer"s Ala Carte....., both high end handbuilt frames, (this example being the closest comparison i could think of), with similar retail price points.





hey....dont apologise!...we all love it....keep going!... :D


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:17 pm 
BoTM Winner
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Rod_Saetan wrote:
to my eye the craftsmanship (for that is the most relevant word when regarding these frames) of the Roberts and Lloyd exceeds that of the Salsa or Bontrager.


A lot of the old timer's in American frame building history can thank the British for learning their skills from Witcomb.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:55 pm 
BoTM Winner / PoTM Winner
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Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:23 pm
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Location: FFM - Germany
Hi Adrian, very nice projects, I'm looking forward to your progress. Here are some pictures of my 1990 Dave Yates Diabolo, best regards Daniel


Image
Dave Yates Diabolo 1990 _03 von veloliebe auf Flickr

Image
Dave Yates Diabolo 1990 _02 von veloliebe auf Flickr

Image
Dave Yates Diabolo 1990 _01 von veloliebe auf Flickr


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:16 am 
West Midlands Deputy AEC
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Location: Suffolk
Wow! What a great response - a real education in UK frame building facts thanks to all that have posted!

I have never seen that Lloyd e-stay before 8)

There is something I really like about the Diablo's - I remember reading the reviews BITD and wanting one - I think because they were more obtainable cost wise than others but still had the kudos of a custom or top end frame.

What was the reason for UK builders not to use TIG as the US chaps did? Was it the tube sets that they selected, core skills (aerospace in the US?), tradition? The US seemed to drop fillet brazed around 90 where as the UK have kept with it. TIG must be cheaper, faster and lighter weight. ?) why didn't the UK follow?

Not after a UK v.s. US debate just after some thoughts - any US guys to comment? I have a Salsa Al la Carte and a FRO and I couldn't make a call on the quality - those bikes have some really lovely detail in the build details and they feel Bomb proof! I'd love a Bonty too one day.

I have only been able to view this thread on my phone since last night - looking forward to reading it in detail and viewing the images on a decent screen when I get home later in the week :D

Keep the UK steel pics coming :D

Anyone got an Orange Formula?


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