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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:00 am 
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Anthony wrote:
My Equipe says E 17.5 and B9608 0310. I think it must have been built in Vancouver because it's a Blizzard frame and Blizzards were made in Vancouver for a good few years after that. The E presumably means Equipe, 17.5 is the size and I wonder whether B might stand for B.C., or even Blizzard.

You have H and T9409 2899, so say H means Hammer, 9409 means built in September 94 and normally you would think the T meant The Bicycle Group, a big Taiwan company that makes frames etc. I can't think what else it might mean. So maybe they had already transferred Hammer production offshore even a few years before the ProCycle takeover?

I would think it would certainly suit a more heavy duty fork, maybe a Z2 if you want to stay fairly close to period. And the more heavy duty the fork, and the riding you plan to do, obviously the stronger is the argument for using a nice wide riser bar.


Cheers, Anthony.

Only Google result is this place?

TBG The Bicycle Group Inc

Address:381 Railway St,
Vancouver BC,
V6A 1A4
Sales:$500,000 - $1 Million
Employees:Approximately: 15 employees work at this location
Phone:604-684-4933
Fax:604-684-6332


I was hoping this would become a lightweight steel flyer for singletrack and basic cross-country however if this is the case then i won't hesitate to "Hammer" it around :D guess it's good news.

Do the alu Rockys have stamped dropouts?

My 96 Marin doesn't yet my 95 Muirwoods steel did - which suggests to my sleep deprived brain that the 95 steel bikes were still USA made and my 96 alu is made in Taiwan.

My pals 95 Eldridge came with stamped White cranks whereas my 96 IFT came with sugino made decal'd White cranks.

The sticker on the Hammer frame states made in Canada, not that i'm bothered(ish) although a lot of buyers at that time may have had grounds for court action for misleading branding?

I guess it doesn't matter a squat if it's the same tubes and it doesn't fall apart, huh.

"Hand built bikes since 1983, Canadian brand, Rocky Mountain are built for riders by riders in a place where the riding rules. Perfecting the art of hand crafted bicycles, in a process that has many steps and takes a significant amount of time. Rocky Mountain pride themselves in taking a great deal of care when transforming tubes into beautifully finished, performance oriented bike frames, from concept to prototyping, wheel building to the final coat of paint, it’s all done in the Rocky Mountain HQ in Vancouver BC."


Last edited by jonnymcenroe on Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:50 am 
retrobike rider
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I'm sorry for that slip. I meant to say Taiwan Bicycle Group, which happens to have the same initials as The Bicycle Group, the owners and originators of Kona.

Rocky Mountain continue to make that claim to this day, even though many Canadians in particular feel that they are being misled over something that is important to them. Virtually all current Rocky Mountain frames are built in Taiwan or China (carbon). However they are painted and assembled into bikes in Quebec, and under Canadian consumer law that entitles Rocky Mountain to put a made in Canada sticker on the bike.

There is no doubt that some Rocky Mountains were made in Taiwan from the earliest times, simply because they didn't have sufficient capacity in their Delta/Vancouver B.C. factory. From around 1990, they expanded the factory and took back the Blizzard production to B.C., but I think they may have left the Fusion 'offshore' all the while. The move offshore was certainly accelerated after the takeover by ProCycle in c96, but I have never seen an authoritative chronology of which models and when. However I understood that the Blizzard continued to be made in B.C. until the 21st century, and that's what makes me think my Equipe would be from B.C. The Hammer, Soul etc certainly went offshore from c96, but I don't know whether that process was already in train even before the takeover. Logically it might have been. If Grayson Bain was in financial trouble, it wouldn't be surprising if he was saving money on production costs even before he sold out.

Serial number T9109 0306 is a 1992 Kona Explosif Pro, made in Taiwan by TBG = Taiwan Bicycle Group (under contract to TBG = The Bicycle Group, no relation). That Kona serial number is in exactly the same format as your T9409 2899. I don't say that this completely proves that your Hammer was made by TBG, but I do think it would be surprising if Rocky Mountain had adopted a serial number format identical to one already in use by a major Taiwanese factory. That makes me think it most likely that it was built by TBG.

I'm not an expert in Marin, but I did once do a little research and I couldn't find any evidence that they ever had a factory building bikes in the USA. If you look in the 1990 catalogue, you will see that it says Made in the USA about the Team Titanium (which was built for them by Litespeed), but it doesn't say Made in the USA about any other bike. If they had been made in the USA, I think the catalogue would have said so.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:46 am 
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Anthony wrote:
I'm sorry for that slip. I meant to say Taiwan Bicycle Group, which happens to have the same initials as The Bicycle Group, the owners and originators of Kona.

Rocky Mountain continue to make that claim to this day, even though many Canadians in particular feel that they are being misled over something that is important to them. Virtually all current Rocky Mountain frames are built in Taiwan or China (carbon). However they are painted and assembled into bikes in Quebec, and under Canadian consumer law that entitles Rocky Mountain to put a made in Canada sticker on the bike.

There is no doubt that some Rocky Mountains were made in Taiwan from the earliest times, simply because they didn't have sufficient capacity in their Delta/Vancouver B.C. factory. From around 1990, they expanded the factory and took back the Blizzard production to B.C., but I think they may have left the Fusion 'offshore' all the while. The move offshore was certainly accelerated after the takeover by ProCycle in c96, but I have never seen an authoritative chronology of which models and when. However I understood that the Blizzard continued to be made in B.C. until the 21st century, and that's what makes me think my Equipe would be from B.C. The Hammer, Soul etc certainly went offshore from c96, but I don't know whether that process was already in train even before the takeover. Logically it might have been. If Grayson Bain was in financial trouble, it wouldn't be surprising if he was saving money on production costs even before he sold out.

Serial number T9109 0306 is a 1992 Kona Explosif Pro, made in Taiwan by TBG = Taiwan Bicycle Group (under contract to TBG = The Bicycle Group, no relation). That Kona serial number is in exactly the same format as your T9409 2899. I don't say that this completely proves that your Hammer was made by TBG, but I do think it would be surprising if Rocky Mountain had adopted a serial number format identical to one already in use by a major Taiwanese factory. That makes me think it most likely that it was built by TBG.

I'm not an expert in Marin, but I did once do a little research and I couldn't find any evidence that they ever had a factory building bikes in the USA. If you look in the 1990 catalogue, you will see that it says Made in the USA about the Team Titanium (which was built for them by Litespeed), but it doesn't say Made in the USA about any other bike. If they had been made in the USA, I think the catalogue would have said so.


Revelation!

Thank you, Anthony.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:16 pm 
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jonnymcenroe wrote:
Hmmm - it's a cro-mo stem with really neat tig welds, when i first got it i thought it was Ti due to the colouration however there is small spots of surface rust all over it which suggests it isn't. There is 2 'tiny' matching Raceface decals either side, it's authenticity i can only speculate, i could take a few close up shots if you'd like, when i get my mitts on a camera again.


Most likely NOT a RF stem. From my knowledge, they've never used decals on stem, or even their other products for that matter.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:24 pm 
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RockiMtn wrote:
jonnymcenroe wrote:
Hmmm - it's a cro-mo stem with really neat tig welds, when i first got it i thought it was Ti due to the colouration however there is small spots of surface rust all over it which suggests it isn't. There is 2 'tiny' matching Raceface decals either side, it's authenticity i can only speculate, i could take a few close up shots if you'd like, when i get my mitts on a camera again.


Most likely NOT a RF stem. From my knowledge, they've never used decals on stem, or even their other products for that matter.


I saw a virtually identical one on e-bay last night think it was 120-30mm in nickel plate... had no decals. It might not be RF then, huh.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:50 pm 
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Anthony wrote:
normally you would think the T meant The Bicycle Group, a big Taiwan company that makes frames etc. I can't think what else it might mean. So maybe they had already transferred Hammer production offshore even a few years before the ProCycle takeover?



Maybe the T is for Tange?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:23 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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with the lower end wheels, 25lb i reckon.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:25 pm 
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Weight is going up - but she still descends like a raindrop on a window.

new specifications :

Stem : Raceface
Bars : Azonic Pyramid Double Wall
Shifters : m739
Levers : XTR m952
Grips : Saracen
Headset : A-headset
Fork : 96 Judy XC Eibach speed springs (soon to be '99 Bomber z1s)
Frame : Tange triple-butted, made in Canada?
Wheels : Kona B1 + BS Parallax on Mavic x138s unknown spokes/nipples
tyres : COnti' Verticals (soon to be IRC TrailBears)
QR : X-lite Camlock
Cassette : Hyperglide C
Brakes : XT739 V Brakes
Mechs ; Fr LX Rr XT739
Chainset : 569 (soon to be RaceFace Turbine)
Chain : KMC
Saddle - WTB Rocket V Ti
Post : Tioga
Pedals : Wellgo platform


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