new project ! Ferraroli California 1987

well, chris is not supposed to answer as he knows it

pretty rare - probably 87

has similarity of looks with a jp weigle fork :idea:

I bought it because it has really an elegant fork and supposedly very comfortable !

nice teaser, i have no chance of knowing this, as it's older than me :roll: but i'll be watching it

Nice Columbus tubed Alain <whistles> bike you have there.

at a wild stab in the dark



:roll:

FluffyChicken":1avcrdf1 said:

Nice Columbus tubed Alain <whistles> bike you have there.

at a wild stab in the dark

:roll:

Click to expand...

yessssss - bravo
mystery was not long kept
congratulations
it is true that the fork is quite recognizable for the "cognoscenti"
but you are even right on the tubing. he did use tange prestige quite a bit later on though. I wonder when it was out first this tange prestige tubing ?
you know if he used columbus only prior to that? there is so little info available on him unfortunately :?

as you did not spill too much of the beans , let the others have a try

I'll be honest and accidentally stumbled across your post at another place that speaks a different language while looking for hints. But the pictures told me everything I need and I remember a post on this forum selling said builders bike (bright thing, possible suspension ?). Hence not wanting to spoil it but drop a few hints.
So once anyone actually guesses it correct, could you enlighten is to what I can only understand is a national hero with regards to frame building.

We don't seem to have anything in the archive on these bikes other than a review but there is plenty at 'that site in that thread' Do you think anyone would mind if I placed the posts in our archive ? (If I get the time to do it)

FluffyChicken":2678kj4s said:

I'll be honest and accidentally stumbled across your post at another place that speaks a different language while looking for hints. But the pictures told me everything I need and I remember a post on this forum selling said builders bike (bright thing, possible suspension ?). Hence not wanting to spoil it but drop a few hints.
So once anyone actually guesses it correct, could you enlighten is to what I can only understand is a national hero with regards to frame building.

We don't seem to have anything in the archive on these bikes other than a review but there is plenty at 'that site in that thread' Do you think anyone would mind if I placed the posts in our archive ? (If I get the time to do it)

Click to expand...

no prob

we will uncover the "veil" as its too continental for the majority of anglosaxons retrobiklers

here is the bike
a Ferraroli California most probably from 87
pardon the wheels as I found it without any and took my city bike one for a test



what is a bit weird is that it is in full XTM730 with a 6 speed thumbie
so clearly on upper range bike
but the tubing is Columbus doubble butted OR tubing but not the Max OR one. I wonder when it was out for the first time actually this MAX OR ?

was maybe done with a touring emphasis has it has rack mounts and eyelets for fenders, even a support for a "stand" and a "dynamo" support.
has also a distinctive chainstay design

very distinctive cable stops too, with top tube brake cable in the top tube " a la klein"



cchris2lou know a lot more about it than I do

had its fame in Switzerland beginning of the nineties and worked quite on bit on bespoke frames - road ones too - later when he had to close his business , he actually was a consultant on "position on the bike" or posture study

was known for this fork made with cinelli top piece ( he apparently bought all the stock from them when they decided to stop doing it)

built a lot in tange prestige tubing beginning of nineties. with a version of the california being below 9kg.
these frames have the reputation of being very confortable, especially the fork. It was sometimes dubbed "the rolls of the MTB" (how disrespectul - the fame did not cross the channel apparently !)


this bike version in tange prestige was about 3 000 euros at the time in 92! and the XTR version with columbus max about 4000 euros !

was also know for flashy paint schemes and using a nitto combo painted in the same manner.

This bike though has a non painted combo and a more discrete paint - probably as it is an earlier version

what stroke me doing a short run with it is the very responsive steering, you hardly touch the bar and it turns. Its actually even difficult to pedal in a right line without touching the bar.
For a bike of this period, the top tube at 56.5 for a 47cm seattube C/T is quite short I would say and the degré of the pivot tube looks actually less steep . comments welcomed on this technical point

Ferraroli tried to diversify in ready made frames mostly in double butted tange to increase volumes but was still quite expensive.
closed his business in 98 as presumably volume was too low

will try to add a few articles images

here are some articles but it will train your french

distinctive work ark - fillet brazing with silver at a lower temperature so as not to alter the metal properties
and cinelli microfusion crown on which he brazed his legs for greater comfort than unicrown forks




[/

I think the MAX tubing was released in 1987, MAX OR came later, certainly around in 1989
MAX has a wall thickness 0.1mm thinner than the MAX OR tubing (all places) so builds a lighter bike.

Will have a look up of the dates if I can find any to confirm that.

Tange Prestige was around before those dates. For example Gary Fisher 'says' he built the first MTB out of Prestige in 1984

FluffyChicken":2muq5qjy said:

I think the MAX tubing was released in 1987, MAX OR came later, certainly around in 1989
MAX has a wall thickness 0.1mm thinner than the MAX OR tubing (all places) so builds a lighter bike.

Will have a look up of the dates if I can find any to confirm that.

Tange Prestige was around before those dates. For example Gary Fisher 'says' he built the first MTB out of Prestige in 1984

Click to expand...

wonder if the geometry looks a bit like the same period US ones ?
as mentionned fork looks a bit like a JP Weigle one but frame look a bit like a ritchey ? no ?

Out of depth here unfortunately and before my time of knowledge, I'm sure there are plenty who know though.

But given they use the name Anapurna for one of the models, it's very much like the Ritchey Annapurna


A search points that he now works here http://www.esp-ergomotion.com/ may be try and contact him with questions ?