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OMG 650b is tiny!
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=395433

Author:  davidj [ Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  OMG 650b is tiny!

Fresh on my successfull bike parts for beer thread I find myself somewhat inebreated in the back garden. For the first time I have my 650b & 29er Clockworks out at the same time.

What is going on with those tiny wheels?

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Author:  davidj [ Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

It really is just a gratuitous excuse to post a photo of my lovely bikes.

Author:  bluetomgold [ Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OMG 650b is tiny!

What are you talking about? They're all huge compared to proper 26" wheels... :mrgreen:

Author:  mattr [ Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OMG 650b is tiny!

Nah, a small 650b tyre (2 or 2.1") will be pretty much the same rolling diameter as a large (2.35 or 2.4") 26". Only a few mm in it.

29er is much bigger.

Author:  bolly [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OMG 650b is tiny!

Suppose the big question is which of the two do you like the best ?

Author:  davidj [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

It's a good question that I can't answer easily.

The 650b is a large frame with 120mm forks, the 29er is a medium with 100mm forks. They have the same bars/stems/grips/saddles & pedals. 29er has a layback post.

The distance from saddle to bars is identical as is saddle height from the centre of the cranks. The 29er is more comfortable despite me being 6ft and Orange saying I need the larger frame.

The 650b has Nobby NICs and the 29er Continental X-King, I seem to prefer the Contis - or am I prefering the bigger wheels?

Can't fully get my head around the preference for the 29er, plus I wanted to prefer the 650b as it is a more complete build.

I plan to keep riding them both till the 29er build is finished, better forks/cranks/headset. Then rebuild the favourite with the XTR M9000 parts I am accumulating. I expect that decision in the summer.

Author:  bolly [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OMG 650b is tiny!

Thanks it's nice to see the 2 bikes compared like that be interesting to see which ends up being your favourite later in the year I suppose it also depends on the type of riding you do

Author:  mattr [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

davidj wrote:
as is saddle height from the centre of the cranks. The 29er is more comfortable despite me being 6ft and Orange saying I need the larger frame.
Do you have the same set back from the bottom bracket to saddle? That's going to make a massive difference to comfort. (If things like bar height, crank length etc are the same)

Author:  davidj [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Yesterday really was the first time they were both out together and I have a lot more measurements to make.

The 29er with shorter travel forks sits higher at the front despite the frame being 1 size smaller. The layback on the 29er post will almost certainly sit me further back than the crank spindle. The 29er must have longer chainstays, the 650b more take - or is that just the longer fork and will balance out when sag is allowed for?

To what amount the above differ I don't yet know. If the weather is still fine when I finish this set of night shifts I will try to identify the differences.

Don't get me wrong the 650b isn't bad, just the 29er feels better for me somehow. If I didn't have the 29er I would have been 100% happy with the 650b.

Author:  davidj [ Mon May 13, 2019 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Still struggling to decide which is best, which is my ONE bike...

To make it easier to decide I have bought another Clockwork (man logic), but this time it is a 29er in large. I am not daft though, it is a different colour to the other two ;)

Author:  davidj [ Tue May 14, 2019 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

First ride out on the new 29er with a large frame. Looks great, needs a longer stem and then upgrades all round to make it mine.

Am I mad or do 29er's roll faster than 650b? I had to take my 650b to remote storage (too many bikes for the space at home!) Even downhill it felt slower than both the 29er's. No brake rub, wheels spin freely????

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Author:  mattr [ Tue May 14, 2019 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OMG 650b is tiny!

29ers roll faster. (Given same tyre model/size/pressure/etc)

Author:  davidj [ Thu May 16, 2019 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

My previous (medium) Sky Blue 29er is now broken up and ready for sale. The Hope Hoops have made it over to the new to me (large) Moonstone Grey 29er. Massive weight difference on the rear wheel, at this point I don't know if it is tyres, wheels, cassette or a combination of them all.

I already have moved my Brooks Cambium, DMR v12 and my favourite grips over.

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Author:  davidj [ Thu May 16, 2019 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

I was contemplating keeping the Race Face finishing kit as the stem & bars are 35mm. On reflection I am going to move over my Thomson kit as the 35mm knuckle looks disproportionate against the 32mm Reba stanchions.

Aesthetics are as important as performance, aren't they?

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Author:  Duxuk [ Fri May 17, 2019 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OMG 650b is tiny!

I disagree that aesthetics are as important as performance. My classic Whyte JW4 is modernised with wide bars and short stem but retains it's low rolling resistance from 26" wheels. With 3X10 transmission it's a better climber than my 650b bike. I do find the 27.5" tyres give more cushioning and grip but if I was buying new I'd certainly go for a 29er. They roll over rocky terrain far better. On smooth ground you wouldn't notice but in my area I'd fancy narrower 29" tyres.
I've just read this months MBR and a letter writer says that he's faster almost everywhere on narrow tyres than he was on the OE 2.8"ers. Most of the industry seems to be going the wrong way. Bring back the old school, for me. Your bikes all look very good. Clean, unlike my own.
Image

Author:  mattr [ Fri May 17, 2019 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OMG 650b is tiny!

Duxuk wrote:
retains it's low rolling resistance from 26" wheels.
??

All the research shows 29er has lower rolling resistance. (Given same tyre model and pressures.)

Author:  Duxuk [ Fri May 17, 2019 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OMG 650b is tiny!

mattr wrote:

All the research shows 29er has lower rolling resistance. (Given same tyre model and pressures.)

The thing is if I used the same tyre pressures on my 27.5" and 26" wheels, they'd probably roll the same. But old school 26ers tend to run 10psi higher. I know you don't have to but the fact is that this is what we do. If I'd used under 30 psi today on my Whyte I could easily have pinched the tubed tyre. Got a thrilling tail slide on a big berm today. I probably needed less pressure! It's horses for courses.

Author:  mattr [ Sat May 18, 2019 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OMG 650b is tiny!

Erm. Higher pressure off road = more rolling resistance.

Especially if you're on the sort of terrain that is pinch puncture territory.

(I run my 26er at 25 or less and have no issues, even when racing, and it's all rocks and roots round here. (Unfortunately, I'm not light either.)

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