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FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=288979

Author:  twain [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

Hi all,

after speculating about doing this for aaaaages and staring at the disassembled frame sat on top of my cupboard for far too long, i have embarked on sourcing and creating my own bearing upgrade kit for the FSR frame (Elite 1999 model).

i shall be upgrading the following parts:

A links (the pivots at the chain stay drop outs)
Seat stay (top)
shock linkage

im a bit stuck with the main pivot bearings at the moment - not sure on what i need yet due to lack of knowledge of existing main pivot assembly.

I'm doing this with a bit of guesstimating and referencing the images from BETD and replicating their kits.

So far, i've sourced the following:
For the A Link upgrade:
Image

6 x Needle roller bearings (open ended) (the seat stay and shock linkage require the same sizes hence why i ordered this many). Measurements:
Outer diameter: 16mm
Inner diameter: 12mm
Width: 10mm

Nitrile O Rings. Measurements:
Inner diameter: 11mm (you want this a bit smaller than the ID of the needle bearing to provide a tight fit for the bushing)
Cross section: 2.5mm


Parts list to get (this will be updated as i progress):

- Nylon washers (for seat stay/A links/shock link): OD: 22mm / IN: 12mm / W:1mm
- Nylon washers (for main pivot): OD:22mm / ID:10mm / W: 3.5mm
- Bolts and locking nuts for bushes

Costs (including postage) - this will be updated as i progress:

Needle roller bearings: £8 approx for all 6
O rings: £2 for 10
Aluminium shaft (12.7mmOD x M6 bore x 300mm length: £10 (hopefully this will do all the bushes i need)
Needle roller bearing seals - set of 2 (for the shock link bearings): £8
Needle roller bearing seals (for top of seat stay - set of 2): £8 should have ordered 4 in the first place :facepalm:

Total so far: £28

Progress:

So far i have installed the needle bearings at the A-links. i've centred them as much as possible - using vernier clamps and a home made bearing insert tool (socket set and bolt/washers). took me 5 minutes :) the o rings sit perfectly.
Pics:

Image

Image

next is to get the nylon washers sorted and the bushings.

Also added bearings to the shock link:

Image

For those interested, i used a simple socket head, bolt (used the one that holds the shock in the shock link) and a washer and nut to guide them in:

Image

Image

Image

First problem:

nothing major, but the O rings i ordered have come up small - cross section not big enough (2mm) have ordered some with same ID (11mm) but with a 2.5mm cross section. this should do the trick :) one at the top of the pick wont fit properly.

Image

UPDATE: Got the right O-Rings :)

Image

Image

Needle Bearing seals fitted to shock linkage - these needed a 3mm recess to fit flush. go too far, and you'll need to pull your bearings all the way through and start again! so gently and slowly does it! luckily, i got it spot on both times :) and they sit perfectly flush and right up against the needle roller face (with possibly just a smidge exposed to help create a nice seal when the washers sit over it): these were easy enough to install by hand (used a tiny bit of grease) and pushed them in using a socket with my fingers to apply the pressure evenly.

Image

Image

Image

Top of seat stay bearings complete with seals installed. pics later :)

:)

Author:  toomanyframes [ Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY

Would I be right in thinking its cheaper doing it this way rather than ordering the various betd kits?
Very interested in this for one of the fleet, would very much like to see pics/description :D

Author:  twain [ Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY

toomanyframes wrote:
Would I be right in thinking its cheaper doing it this way rather than ordering the various betd kits?
Very interested in this for one of the fleet, would very much like to see pics/description :D


thats exactly the reason im doing it.
for the parts that are readily availabe (needle bearings/o rings) i'd imagine thats where the savings can be made.
However, the bushes needed will require some out sourcing/favour asking from people.
nylon washer may need some creative thinking too, but its definitely not impossible.
i see no reason why it cannot be replicated some way, if not exactly as BETD have done it.
pics later tonight once the kiddies are in bed!

Author:  twain [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY

update with pics

Author:  old_coyote_pedaller [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

Thanks for this. I always fancied one of these earlier FSRs but was put off by the fact they had bushes and the bearing kits, if available, were way too much £'s for an old frame.
Looking forward to you completing the upgrade.

Author:  twain [ Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

old_coyote_pedaller wrote:
Thanks for this. I always fancied one of these earlier FSRs but was put off by the fact they had bushes and the bearing kits, if available, were way too much £'s for an old frame.
Looking forward to you completing the upgrade.


me too. am trying to get as much done that involves the readily available parts (needle rollers/washers/o rings etc) then i'll find out how to get the bushes made. im sure its no hardship for a local lathe operator to sort me out.
i could even get some steel/aluminium rod and cut it to length myself and then just get the bushes drilled through....
not sure what material is best though....aluminium would be fine i guess - thats what most shock bushes are made from right????

Author:  lowslowandold [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

Awesome idea have been thinking of changing my bushes to needle bearing, let me know if you need any measurements I've got NOS bush kit if you want to borrow to measure?

Author:  twain [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

lowslowandold wrote:
Awesome idea have been thinking of changing my bushes to needle bearing, let me know if you need any measurements I've got NOS bush kit if you want to borrow to measure?

thanks, but i've got all the original bushes from this frame. With needle bearings, it changes the bush requirements, so i'll need to get some custom made i think...... :roll:
still searching for something that might make my life a little easier......

Author:  twain [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

new O-Rings arrived today. hopefully they match up better.

still looking for a way to make some 1mm thick nylon washers, cant seem to find any online.
will measure up for bush dimensions next.

Author:  Chute55uk [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

Interesting, would you say it's worth doing if there is no play or wear to the original ones?

Author:  old_coyote_pedaller [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

I replaced the rear shock on the full suspension bike my wife has with a Rockshox one. The bushes for the Rockshox one were OK but slightly too narrow. So being a cheapskate I used some nylon washers like the ones in your OP to make up the space.
Can't remember exactly where I got them, B&Q or maybe Halfords as they sell lots of different small fixings stuff in wee packets like small nuts and bolts, pop-rivets, washers etc. Will search the distant reaches of my fading memory to be sure. Or not.:oops:

Is it the dimensions of shock bushes you need or for main chain-stay pivot?

Author:  twain [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

judging by the comments from other forums/FSR riders, the difference between the nylon bush setup and the needle roller bearing setup, its definitely worth a go.
a more technical reason is that it does reduce wear to the A links - something which when i took mine apart, i could tell would be an issue, as some of the bushes/washers removed came out easier on one side than the other.

im also only doing this because i get naff all time to ride, so may as well take it all apart and fiddle so that when i do get to ride, its extra special ;) (plus i cant afford the kits from BETD) - I think the reason for the prices at BETD is due to the custom bush/washer requirements.
but if there is a way to get round that, then i'll find it ;)

Author:  twain [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

update :) will be getting in touch with someone to make some bushes once im all measured up.

Author:  toomanyframes [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

twain wrote:
update :) will be getting in touch with someone to make some bushes once im all measured up.

Order extra, am interested :wink:

Author:  Chute55uk [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

Yes me 2

Author:  twain [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

lol, will keep a tab on requests, but cant make any promises yet.
I'm going to try and get the bushes made for the following parts of my frame:

Top of seat stay
Shock link
A-links (near the drop outs)

dimensions requirements:
outer diameter 12mm
inner diamter - 6mm or 8mm, not sure yet, will check existing bolt dimensions
length - this varies between the 3 parts on the frame, but i will need a total of 4 bushes.

my initial idea was to get a length of aluminium tube (OD12mm ID6mm/8mm) then cut them to length. But i cant find a length of alu tube with OD12mm
tried looking for steel but still no luck.
so will probably have to get a lathe operator to sort me out, as i can only seem to get hold of metal rods which will need the bore added to it.
i dont have the tools to do this unfortunately.

Author:  twain [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

old_coyote_pedaller wrote:
I replaced the rear shock on the full suspension bike my wife has with a Rockshox one. The bushes for the Rockshox one were OK but slightly too narrow. So being a cheapskate I used some nylon washers like the ones in your OP to make up the space.
Can't remember exactly where I got them, B&Q or maybe Halfords as they sell lots of different small fixings stuff in wee packets like small nuts and bolts, pop-rivets, washers etc. Will search the distant reaches of my fading memory to be sure. Or not.:oops:

Is it the dimensions of shock bushes you need or for main chain-stay pivot?


this would be very helpful indeed. i'll nip over to B&Q/halfords at lunch to see if i can find anything :)

Author:  twain [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

found these today for the shock linkage setup - needle roller bearing seals:

Image

exact ones i need here: (12mm ID x 16mm OD x 3mm wide)

http://www.wychbearings.co.uk/g12x16x3_skf.html

most expensive part yet at just under £8 posted for 2......

Author:  twain [ Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

recieved my 12.7mm M6 aluminium shaft today.
will be checking its fit with the needle rollers - bit dubious as i think it may come up slightly too large. but i have a potential contact to get it machined down and cut to length.
should get the needle bearing seals tomorrow too.

just need to sort out my washers then im pretty much there! costs updated in OP.

Author:  bigmick [ Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

will sump washers like these not work
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sump-Washers- ... 0733345976

Author:  twain [ Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

bigmick wrote:
will sump washers like these not work
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sump-Washers- ... 0733345976


close, but i really need them to be as per the measurements i've taken.
i'm a bit pedantic like that, if a washer doesnt sit perfectly centred, it'll bug me and i'll feel like i've bodged it!

the alu rod i got (12.7mm) is too big (kinda saw that coming) but i have resources to machine it down.
also have a someone i'm discussing with at the moment that has some 12mm alu rod they are willing to donate to the cause :)

slow progress though as it probably wont take shape for another week or so....:(

Author:  BobCatMax [ Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

keep on going mate. Rome wasn't built in a day, remember ;)

Author:  twain [ Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY *PICS ADDED*

they are but minor set backs. plenty of ways to get what i want, just need to find them!
need to order 2 more needle bearing seals(annoying as if i'd realised then could have saved on postage!) will get these next week though.

certainly coming together nicely though :)

Author:  twain [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

righty-o
new update and pics on page 1

still trying to get my bushes sorted. seems they need different bore sizes (M6 and M8) just need to figure out (guess) which ones are which ;)

still looking for suitable washers though :roll:

might have to settle for ones that need whittling down....

Author:  twain [ Thu May 15, 2014 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

projects taken a bit of a back seat, holidays and work getting in the way :)

got Rampage on the case though, hopefully he can help me out with the last bits to help me get this project back off the ground :)

Author:  lowslowandold [ Fri May 16, 2014 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

Looking forward to the final shopping list, I know it's lazy of me not to experiment, but looks good guys

Author:  S-M [ Sun May 18, 2014 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

Good work so far though!!

FWIW i dont know anywhere that still sells the original nylon bushes anyway, so us older FSR folk HAVE to do this kind of mod eventually.

Author:  twain [ Mon May 19, 2014 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

S-M wrote:
Good work so far though!!

FWIW i dont know anywhere that still sells the original nylon bushes anyway, so us older FSR folk HAVE to do this kind of mod eventually.


thanks guys,

I had some nylon bushes made up for me, but these arent easy to make - since the nylon is quite soft and getting a nice accurate/smooth finish isnt particularly easy!

will be giving Rampage a polite nudge this week to see whats what :) he's a busy chap!

really want this finished this summer so i can at least trial it all. i may have to splash out on a main pivot bearing kit though (£50 from BETD!) not sure how my home made washers will work with the standard set up.

Author:  S-M [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

Bump a roo.

As some of you know, I bought an enduro seat stay a while back to use on my old 98 GC, but I got the wrong year, finding out after a days graft to machine the shock linkages fittings away by hand, that this later model had shorter drop outs, but longer chain stays to compensate (and I dont have the chainstays whoops)

Anyway I kept the part in the man cave, recently rediscovering it hanging up, this part already came with bearings in the drop out join, they are 688 2rs cartridge bearings, hacking the housing apart to get the bearings out intact, I discover that they sit in the seat stay butted up to an internal flange to stop them moving about, while having a smaller washer the same width of the internal flange to take up any play.

I strip my bike down and remove the stock oem parts, the small tube that the bolt fits through to bolt them on is a perfect fit, I know this already from my attempts to fit the later seat stay to my old bike, but what I never knew is that the 688 2rs bearings are also a direct fit for my original seat stays, I simply slide the tube through one bearing, add the washer, slide the other bearing onto the tube and then press the lot into the seat stay, you can then remove the tube.

This setup will be recessed internally on both sides, I had planned to use nylon washers to help keep the setup centered (my seat stays dont have the original flange/lip to prevent the bearings moving about) the nylon washers I did have "in stock" seamed a little too thick, so I cut down the old top hat bushes to suit, if you leave a little lip on them they will sit in the recess that the new bearings make, keeping everything centered if the bearings ever wanted to move about (doubtfull when you have to press them in, but you never know)

Its all bolted up now and working great, costs would be four 688 2rs bearings and a couple of washers, cheap as chips, there not needle bearings, but they are all specialized oem parts :)

I think the betd kit just for the little conversion by itself is 35quid :o

It's still a further 120ish quid to replace the rest via betd, I may just pay for the main pivot upgrade as its the main part and probably gets the most grief and load/forces on the bike, im pretty sure its also the part on mine giving the bloody squeek.

Author:  S-M [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

688 2rs bearings on ebay are 1.50 for 2, so 3quid all in if you have a couple of washers handy, you could easily do the mod without the washers to spread the bearings apart, but to my eyes, keeping the bearings apart internaly might help spread any twisting forces/load.

Needle bearings are better with the twisting forces, no doubt about that.

Author:  twain [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

S-M wrote:
688 2rs bearings on ebay are 1.50 for 2, so 3quid all in if you have a couple of washers handy, you could easily do the mod without the washers to spread the bearings apart, but to my eyes, keeping the bearings apart internaly might help spread any twisting forces/load.

Needle bearings are better with the twisting forces, no doubt about that.


got any pics of this? im a pictures man ;)

interesting as i had thought about this.
im still having trouble getting the bloody bushes sorted - then i'll need to sort out washers etc :roll:
im going to need to buy the main pivot bearing anyway.....
we'll see....

Author:  S-M [ Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

Sorry, i never took any photos, i just got carried away when i started :D

But too break it down, the 688 2 rs bearings will fit in your drop out mounting holes once you remove the stock bushes, the metal tube that your bolt goes through (you will have to tap this out to disassemble anyway, perfectly fits inside the new bearings, so instead of the tube fitting inside the old larger bush/nylon bush setup, it now sits inside the bearings.

If you do a quick mock up on the work bench it will all make sense, its really quite easy!!

I have ordered a pack of 10 x 688 2 rs bearings to further play around (i got them for £5.25 delivered lol), apparently the 2001 model onwards also has the 688 bearings in the uper seat stay links as per this thread.
http://forums.mtbr.com/specialized/fsr- ... 26577.html

I also note they say the main pivot takes a 6000 2rs bearing, it may take some guess work out on how to convert the older bikes..

I am quite lucky as i have my older 98 GC frame hanging up in the man cave, so i can experiment while keeping the elite all built up to ride, i just never have the time to sort everything out these days due to work..

Author:  twain [ Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Thanks, will check that out later. I have the 6000 2rs bearings already installed, interesting to know about the seat stay and drop outs though. What about your shock link? You done the same to that as well?

Author:  S-M [ Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

Not looked at the shock link yet.

Author:  S-M [ Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

Just ordered the BETD kit for the main pivot though, i think i prefer the idea of proper needle bearings for this part as i get it gets a lot of twisting forces and grief.

I forgot i had £40 in a secret savings account, so i put it to good use :)

I will play around with the shock link and top seat stay mounts at a later date.

I got out on the bike yesterday for a quick 16 mile ride and just sorting the dropink mounts out has tightend up my bike a little, the old bushes must have been worn more than i thought!

Author:  S-M [ Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Main pivot kit from BETD fitted, tightened up the bike a LOT (never fixed my creak though ffs)

Realized after i had paid that the seller of my 10pk of 688 bearings was based in Hong Kong, so the shock linkage conversion is going to have to wait for now :(

Author:  S-M [ Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

Mine is now finished :)

Rather than create a new post with a different method from yourself, i thought we could combine them both into a FSR bearing upgrade MEGA-THREAD :D

I will add the link to this thread in my sig.

The ingredients i used were as follows, the conversion cost me very little, (apart from the main pivot as i bought the BETD kit for this)

16mm OD steel tube (i had this laying about in the garage, it came from a B&Q store off cuts section)
8mm OD steel tube - 1mm wall thickness (this also was laying about in the garage)
688 2rs bearings x12 , i used x4 of these for the drop links (2 per side) i used x6 of these at the main shock linkage mounting point, and i used x2 of these at the top of each seat stay, you could do the entire conversion with x8 of these, i will explain how later on.
M6 threaded rod OR one M6x85mm bolt & one M6x55mm bolt, i used neither as my local fasteners unit was closed, i settled on M6x100mm furniture bolts that i trimmed down upon completion, they were cheap and came with a free allen key LOL.
8mm Drill.
Possibly some loctite/bearing lock (i never used it)
M6 Nuts x 2
M8 OR M6 washers x4 (i got my nuts and washers free from work, i build car seats for a living :) )


I know you like pics, so i did my best :)

Step 1.

Make sure your 8mm OD tube fits inside the bearings, mine was a smidge tight and needed a little bit of "dressing" with a file so it would push through, you want MINIMAL play to this join, so a little tight is fine.

Image

Step 2.

Strip the bike down and remove the stock bushes, test fit the 688 2 rs bearings into the seat stay like this, mine were easy to push in, but this probably depends on how much paint your seat stay has on it, this is why i suggest some people may need loctite/bearing lock.

Image

Step 3.

Test fit the 688 2rs bearings into the shock linkage, the fit here on my bike was a little more snug, easily tapped into place though, you may need a little loctite/bearing lock if yours is badly worn.

Image

Step 4.

Cut some of the 8mm OD steel tube to the same width as your shock linkage, i forget the exact dimensions, but i left mine a tiny little bit too long so i could file it down later when needed (like a bespoke fit LOL)

Image

Step 5.

Measure the width of your seat stay top joint, subtract 10mm from this for the width of the x2 bearings (one each side) and also subtract a few mm per side for your top hat washers (i chose 1mm per side, in hindsight i would have chosen a little more) The figure you now have should be cut from the 16mm OD steel tube, this will become a steel spacer to fit inside the join, preventing your bearings from going to deep.

Image

Step 6.

I found this spacer a little tooo tight for my tastes, i was not pressing the spacer into the tube, the bike was mostly still built up, i had visions of it easily getting stuck with me simply tapping it in with a rubber mallet, i tried oil/grease but i could see it was going to be a nightmare, so i cut a slot down the side of it like this to make it easier to fit (it slid in nice and easy afterwards) you can see the mole grip marks left in one end after i had to wrestle it back out after getting it inserted approx 10mm :o

Image

Step 7.

Spacer fitted with 6mm space per side for 1 bearing and a modified top hat washer.

Image

Step 8.

Bearing popped into place to check for fitment.

Image

Step 9.

Then you need to trim your old top hat washers to prevent metal on metal contact, whatever you took away on length for your 16mm spacer, is the amount you must leave on the top hat washer, i took 1mm per side, so i cut my top hat washer and trimmed it down for 1mm. in hindsight i might have left a little more meat on the washer here (and subtract the same from the spacer) as it would make reassembly a little easier.

Image

Step 10.

The 6mm hole in your alloy shock linkage must then be drilled out to 8mm (i forgot to take a photo), the previous 8mm OD steel tube you created in step 4 is pushed through the linkage, through the bearings/seat stay and back out the other side of the alloy shock linkage, you can then use you M6 threaded bar/Nuts/Bolts to bolt the linkage on like this, it is important that the steel tube is the same width as the linkage, you want the bolt to tighten against both the linkage AND the steel tube, this makes the linkage rotate the bearings, rather than the steel tube simply spinning in the drilled alloy holes.

Image

Image

Step 11.

Drill out your frames shock mounting point to 8mm, you will need to create another 8mm OD steel tube to mount the linkage in exactly the same steps as above, i cheated a little on the front joint, instead of making another 16mm OD steel spacer to space the bearings out to the edge, i simply popped 6 bearings into the front join, i bought a huge pack of bearings anyway and had loads spare :) this is why at the beguining i said you could do the conversion with less bearings than i did, you simply need to make another 16mm OD spacer to take up the space instead, i found that with 6 bearings installed, i could pretty much just use the entire top hat washer to prevent metal on metal contact instead of trimming it down. This picture was taken as i was tapping the steel tube home, it should sit FLUSH with the frame when installed.

Image

Step 12.

Add your front bolt, and if needed, trim them down.

Image

Image


The rear drop links are even easier, you simply need 4x 6882rs bearings, the 8mm OD tube is already fitted to the bike as standard, you have to tap these out to dissemble the bushes from the bike, remove the top hat washers/bushes and tubes, slide the 6882rs bearings inside, trim the top hat washers to suit (should be self explanatory after reading the above) then rebuild the bike by sliding the 8mm OD tubes back into the joins, follwed by the M6 factory bolts/washers/nuts.


EASY............ :)

Author:  twain [ Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

lovely write up S-M. my only query is regarding the tube steel - talking to Chris at rampage, seemed to suggest that a higher grade of steel would be needed - however, he's talking in conjunction with needle roller bearings.
What i may well do is splash out on the main pivot and shock linkage upgrades as i dont feel like getting a drill out to my frame mounts :)
will probably redo my A links (drop outs) as per your work.
nice tip on the top hat washers, been finding it a faff finding washers the right size :)
need to seel some bits to treat myself with the BETD upgrades now. just wnat to get it done now .... :roll:

Author:  S-M [ Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

I have done 2 rides now and put 27 miles on the conversion, it feels fantastic.

It has not sorted out my bloody creak when under heavy load though :?

I`m running out of things to blame, my headset bearings feel knackered though so thats my next port of call.

Author:  lowslowandold [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Just wondering to be completely lazy, could you guys do a "bike pack" of conversion bits? I hope be happy to pay extra for it all to be cut and ready to assemble?

Top work on this thread

Author:  S-M [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

With my version you would still have to enlarge a few 6mm holes to 8mm with a drill and cut your old nylon top hat washers, you might as well do the rest anyway, its an easy mod, the most pita part of my method was skimming down the tube so it was a great fit inside the bearing.

MAybe im just getting old, or maybe I need a new metal file, its worked wonders for the bike though.

Author:  twain [ Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

right, so i've just gone and ordered the main pivot bearing kit from BETD components.
i knew i had to bite the bullet on that one.
im still keen to make my own needle bearing kit for the a links and top of seat stay and shock link, but my patience are wearing thin trying to get the bushes sorted... :( this endevour may turn out fruitless after all...

Author:  twain [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

just also ordered myself some 688 2RS bearings (16mm OD, 8 ID, 5mm width) for my A-Links (or drop out links if you prefer).
im actually going to buy the other 2 BETD sets for seat stay and shock link as i dont want to be drilling my frame.
Ive given up trying to get bushes sorted for this now.
So as it stands now, my currne tset up will consist of the following:

Main Pivot needle bearing set up from BETD - £53 (ordered)
Seat Stay needle bearing set up from BETD - £35
Shock link needle bearing set up from BETD - £35
688 2RS bearing setup a per S-Ms efforts. - £5 with existing bushes and amended nylon top hat washers. (ordered)

all in £128 :'(

THIS IS FAR MORE THAN I INTENDED TO SPEND. but im bored of finding ways to do this and i just want to get the bike sorted and ridden :twisted:

if i ever do find a way of making those bushes, i'll probably get a load done and sell off some set ups to make some of my money back ;)

Author:  twain [ Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

just sorted my A-links using the 688 2RS bearings with resized top hat washers - i left a few mm of the top hat part to sit up against the bearings on either side to help keep them centred-ish.
all fitted back up nicely.
still waiting for my main pivot bearing...been nearly a week now....not sure what to expect seeing as every time i phone them, i never get through to anyone......hmmmm. will give them until tuesday i think.

Author:  S-M [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

I emailed them about the main pivot as it does not come with any fitting instructions, i was unsure which way around the washers and O rings are supposed to go.

I never got a reply, so i just put it all in as i thought fit, and lashed a hell of a lot of grease into everything.

Author:  GSB [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Interesting thread. I love stuff like this...

If I may, I have a suggestion for something that you may have missed in your investigations.

I've found that Igus iglidur polymer bushings and bearings are really good. Self lubricating, capable of withstanding huge loads and far better at the withstanding small angular displacements in a suspension system than roller or ball bearings. Plus they are infinitely better at dealing with the mud grit and general shite, so they last ages and, (bonus) they are really light.

In materials capability and resilience terms, they are a order of magnitude better than the old nylon bushes you used to get in bikes like the FSR's or my old giant ATX, which i imagine is going to have to go through a similar re-engineering process at some time soon.

I was put into them by a friend of mine who develops high end low volume cars, but Turner bikes use them in thier dw link rear suspensions to great acclaim, and I've had great success in using them in an industrial environment to replace OE fit roller bearings in valve actuators on a gas turbine.

Igus have a massive range of sizes in stock, they cost less than a decent quality roller bearing, and if they don't have what you want, you can either buy the stock and machine your own, or they can make them to your size for very affordable prices.

These things tick every box for mountain bike suspension systems. Light, free running, zero maintenance, small sizes, and capable of withstanding all the crap that gets into rollers and buggers them up in a few hours of use.

http://www.igus.co.uk/iglidur

Author:  lowslowandold [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

If he wants I can give him a set of bushes, to make copies off?

Author:  twain [ Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

right, so it turns out that the BETD main pivot upgrade bearing kit does NOT fit on to my FSR Elite (99). i was thinking that the main pivot setup didnt differ between this model and the previous years, but, unless im mistaken, it dont fit.
So im pretty miffed.

Author:  S-M [ Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

What part does not fit?

Just had a thought, my bike has the big thick/straight chain stays, they are the same as my 98 ground control, not sure if they were changed or came like that as standered, alot of pics I see online show the chain stays with the version that bends down?

Author:  twain [ Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

S-M wrote:
What part does not fit?

Just had a thought, my bike has the big thick/straight chain stays, they are the same as my 98 ground control, not sure if they were changed or came like that as standered, alot of pics I see online show the chain stays with the version that bends down?


see here :) : viewtopic.php?f=41&t=310493

Author:  twain [ Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

*long over due update:

short story is - not being able to make the bushes for my diy version, ive ended up shelling out for the top of seat stay and original shock linkage bearings.
since i already installed needle bearings and seals in the frame already, i just used the bushes and nylon washers from the sets which slipped in no problem.

i've got 2 x sealed bearings in each a-link with the original bush
2 x 2000RS bearings in the main pivot with 2 x metal washers and 2 x nylon washers

all put back together waiting to be fully assembled...

Image

Image

Image

incase you are wondering, that is an original sharkfin disc adapter, but i removed the anodising (with oven cleaner) as i didnt like the blueish finish. think this matches the frame nicely now :) will probably finish off properly with a silver matt spray (got some exhaust spray paint somewhere)...

got an XT M770 groupset under the bed and some novatec hubbed wheels along with either hope minis or XT 4 pots - both sets need new hoses/servicing.

should have this finished in time for some summer fun!! :)

Author:  toomanyframes [ Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

That's inspiring me to do something with my latest fsr, it's a 98 elite front end that I bought to go with a 99 elite 'bighit' back end that's been in the cave for the last 3 years :D

Author:  twain [ Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

toomanyframes wrote:
That's inspiring me to do something with my latest fsr, it's a 98 elite front end that I bought to go with a 99 elite 'bighit' back end that's been in the cave for the last 3 years :D


i often thought the big hit rear ends would fit... is the Elite 'big hit' exactly that? did you pinch a rear end from a big hit and match it up?

i reckon you can find someone who can make the bushes. i have one other person ill try. if it works out, i'll let you know :)

then i'll be on the hunt for an fsr frame to upgrade with my diy outfit :P

Author:  toomanyframes [ Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

No it's not that one ( the 24" back end,right?) it just the same as your there, even got the yellow and white decals, just one of them says bighit on it.
I'll try and get a picture up if can remember where I put the damn thing!! :D

Author:  twain [ Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

I'm intrigued! I know this is the max back bone version seat stay, not sure I've seen a ' big hit' version though....

Author:  S-M [ Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

Pretty sure mine has the normal ground control seat stay, been looking out for a proper max/elite stay for a while, if I can widen my search with big hit stuff, it would help!

Author:  twain [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

got a rolling frame now....
slowly adding transmission.
got grips on their way
need to sort out my disc brakes then ill be just cabling up the gears with a view to a test ride :)
not sure on the handle bars - the sweep and rise is a bit too much for me....not wide enough either...
sorry for the shoddy pic!

spec so far:
XT M770 cranks (not in image)
Race Face turbine BB
XT M770 rear mech (not in image)
XT M770 shifters (9x3) (not in image)
Marzocchi Bomber air
Hope stem
Club Roost bars
CK headset
spesh saddle
unknown seatpost - want to replace with ritchey later
Fox Float (RP2) rear shock with gonzo valve (means i dont have to take shock off frame to top up/let down)
XTM739 front mech (is the only one i've found that will fit without fouling the main pivot housing)
Alexrims (black with black spokes)
Novatec hubs
203mm front rotor (hope)
shimano 160mm rear rotor
Conti Race King tyres (i think)

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Author:  valve bouncer [ Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

Anyone else having a go at this. I have the BETD link that has needle bearings so that part is good. The replacement 6000 bearings are a little loose in their housing finger tight but not dropping out on their own. Loctite or similar I guess but will I ever be able to get the bastards out again? One of my nylon top hat spacers is a little knackered as well and cannot be sourced so I'm going to have to come up with a creative solution for that. This is kind of fun, thanks to all those in this thread who have given great info!

Author:  Osella [ Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Not bearing-related, but.. I have found that the 1997 Alivio MC14 front mech (FD-MC14) low-clamp version fits the FSR Max Backbone very nicely, right cage spacing & angles to use on a 2x setup, especially combined with a friction shifter, which avoids any indexing issues.

Author:  twain [ Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

I've given up on finding a combination that works. I've gone 1x10 now:)
Bearings still going strong, although a little bit of play from either the main pivot our a-links, but to busy enjoying it to investigate it :)

Author:  Malt_Vinegar [ Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

Great thread.
Is there an overview of all the parts needed, and what you have used?

Author:  twain [ Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

I'll see if I can put together a comprehensive list of parts soon! I don't get anytime to play with bikes at the moment, lack of space and even less time.....may be a while before I can let rip and get it apart to check it over which is when ill do a parts list.

Author:  valve bouncer [ Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

As promised pics of the bespoke bearing upgrade for my new FSR. I'll let the pictures do the talking.
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More pics to follow, limit of 8 per post.

Author:  valve bouncer [ Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

More pics of bearing upgrade. Just beautiful work by you, whoever you are random Japanese man.
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Author:  Malt_Vinegar [ Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

Interesting, needle bearings with a bush.
Will see what I can to copy!

Author:  S-M [ Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

Bump for this as 3 years later i figured it might be time to replace my bearings and i couldn't remember the sizes i had fitted, bike still runs great, never had an issue with my rear bearing conversion :D

Ive worn out my front fork though :D

Author:  S-M [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FSR frame bearing upgrade - DIY - *Pg 1 for updates/pics*

Finished checking my bearing conversion this afternoon, i have done a lot of miles on this now since i fitted them a good few years ago.

The only ones that were worn were the ones at the top of the seat stay, the rest are in such good condition that i have left the old ones in place.

Perfect :D

Author:  twain [ Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Nice :) it's a shame photobucket have literally shafted everyone using their hosting as now my pics from this entire thread, bar your images, have disappeared :(

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