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Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=263647

Author:  wookiee [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Hi

Thinking of possibly delving into the world of a 29er and need some overall education! Have a bunch of probably dumb questions so bear with me...

- I assume a 29er frame needs a 29er fork not a standard one? (and obviously 29" wheels!)
- Would other components be transferrable from a 26" bike? Drive train, disc brakes stems etc?
- Would a 10 speed frame have the same width between the dropouts as a 9 speed?
- Does a 29er even out the bumps more than a 26"?
- Is it worth going full suss or would a hardtail give enough comfort?


So given that if you had around £500-£600ish for either a full suss frame, or hardtail, forks and wheels what would you get...not after new so second hand fine! Or should I go for a full bike and upgrade? Over all I would like it to be as light as possible but always been fearful of carbon as I weigh over 16 stone!

I've heard good things about Genesis bikes but what would you do??

All comments/opinions gratefully received!

Doug

Author:  monty dog [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

wookiee wrote:

- I assume a 29er frame needs a 29er fork not a standard one? (and obviously 29" wheels!)
- Would other components be transferrable from a 26" bike? Drive train, disc brakes stems etc?
- Would a 10 speed frame have the same width between the dropouts as a 9 speed?
- Does a 29er even out the bumps more than a 26"?
- Is it worth going full suss or would a hardtail give enough comfort?



If fitting a suspension fork, typically 490mm for 29er but I'm running a 440mm rigid fork on my Ritchey P29 as I like a low front end and nice, sharp handling.

Yes, regular 26" MTB parts will fit, but obviously need to check things like seatpost size, front mech fitting like you would with swapping parts to any frame.

Most MTB frames are 135mm OLN but there are some 142mm rear-end frames about so worth checking.

I certainly feel my Ritchey is smooth over the rough stuff - once up to speed, rolling resistance is noticeably better with tubeless tyres vs 26er with tubes. I'm running 2.4" X-Kings tubeless on P35 rims - they fly!

Full-sus? Depends on the terrain you're riding and your favoured style of riding - I'm happy fully rigid

Author:  wookiee [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

monty dog wrote:
wookiee wrote:

- I assume a 29er frame needs a 29er fork not a standard one? (and obviously 29" wheels!)
- Would other components be transferrable from a 26" bike? Drive train, disc brakes stems etc?
- Would a 10 speed frame have the same width between the dropouts as a 9 speed?
- Does a 29er even out the bumps more than a 26"?
- Is it worth going full suss or would a hardtail give enough comfort?



If fitting a suspension fork, typically 490mm for 29er but I'm running a 440mm rigid fork on my Ritchey P29 as I like a low front end and nice, sharp handling.

Yes, regular 26" MTB parts will fit, but obviously need to check things like seatpost size, front mech fitting like you would with swapping parts to any frame.

Most MTB frames are 135mm OLN but there are some 142mm rear-end frames about so worth checking.

I certainly feel my Ritchey is smooth over the rough stuff - once up to speed, rolling resistance is noticeably better with tubeless tyres vs 26er with tubes. I'm running 2.4" X-Kings tubeless on P35 rims - they fly!

Full-sus? Depends on the terrain you're riding and your favoured style of riding - I'm happy fully rigid


Thanks for that...I have fully rigid retro bikes and have been riding an 08 Marin full suss but seems a bit tank like, still trying out a 97 marin full suss, but have never ridden a hardtail much...so thats why I was thinking maybe a 29er hardtail may suit me more and weigh less etc. I ride local woodland trails mainly no big rocks, more roots, tree stumps and fallen trees....oh and always (we are in the uk) gloopy mud!

Are tubeless tyres heavier than the tube and tyre equivilent?

Author:  Dickyboy [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

I know nothing about 29ers but am lead to believe this might be a good starting point

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=95383

Author:  02gf74 [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Isnt there a odiscussuon here about the merits if a 29er

Yes it is easier to roll but larger wheels mean slower to steer.... and to counter that they have wider bars

They are heavier than eqivalent 26er

Author:  wookiee [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

02gf74 wrote:
Isnt there a odiscussuon here about the merits if a 29er

Yes it is easier to roll but larger wheels mean slower to steer.... and to counter that they have wider bars

They are heavier than eqivalent 26er


hmmm how much heavier?

Author:  02gf74 [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

how long is a piece of string? would depend on model, parts fitted and type: rigid, hardtail or fs.

i'll take a guess at a lightweight carbon fibre hardtail.
- frame, longer seat and chain stays, longer down tube usually curved to clear forks crown, shorter headtube = 100g
- forks, longer sliders but shorter steerer = 100 g
- wheels, larger diameter rims, longer spokes = 100 g
- larger diameter tyres, rim tape and inner tube and more air = 150 g

so my guesstimate is about 450 g or 1 lb

a like for like comparison: http://mbaction.com/Main/News/26er-Vers ... -4713.aspx

weight differnce is more since they are Al frames and lower spec. components than my "idealised" lightwieght CF hhardtailabove.

Author:  xerxes [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

29ers look funny. :P

Especially in smaller frame sizes.

Author:  Chopper1192 [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

I wouldnt touch a £600 29er. You need to be around the grand mark on frame, forks and wheels to get a stiff frame and non flexy wheels. A cheap 29er is dire, but a decent one can be fun, in the dry at least.

Author:  makster [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

My first big-wheeler arrived today...

Image

Hoping to get out and give it a good thrashing tomorrow afternoon :D

Author:  wookiee [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

makster wrote:
My first big-wheeler arrived today...

Image

Hoping to get out and give it a good thrashing tomorrow afternoon :D


Must admit Mark having had a look about, the ol "Canyon" brand is hard to beat for value for money and seem to get good write ups for the bikes albeit slightly mixed after sales care....is yours the Alu model? Was looking at their carbon 29ers maybe a low spec one that I could upgrade over time...

...you say it weighs in a 25lb is that a manufacturers claim or by your own scales?

Author:  makster [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

wookiee wrote:
makster wrote:
My first big-wheeler arrived today...

Image

Hoping to get out and give it a good thrashing tomorrow afternoon :D


Must admit Mark having had a look about, the ol "Canyon" brand is hard to beat for value for money and seem to get good write ups for the bikes albeit slightly mixed after sales care....is yours the Alu model? Was looking at their carbon 29ers maybe a low spec one that I could upgrade over time...

...you say it weighs in a 25lb is that a manufacturers claim or by your own scales?


Mines the grand canyon al, and it weighs in at exactly 25lbs on my scales!
Just ordered some formula RX's to get rid of the horrid avids.
I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for discounts on some crossmax slr's once next years wheels come out, and I'll also probably switch to 1x10 (as the granny ring is for losers :D )

Author:  highlandsflyer [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Cracking bike Makster, but surely you would be better shoving a bash ring on instead of losing your granny ring in hilly Dorset?

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Chopper1192 wrote:
I wouldnt touch a £600 29er. You need to be around the grand mark on frame, forks and wheels to get a stiff frame and non flexy wheels. A cheap 29er is dire, but a decent one can be fun, in the dry at least.


Yup, bought mine for £765 (Trek Cobia, 10% off) and then put another £300 into making it worthwhile (for me, I'm a bit heavier and harder on bikes than most). New wheels, seatpost (bent three before I got a thomson), bars, brakes and tyres. It's now a fantastic machine.

Or should be, I went OTB at Haldon Forest and tacoed the front rim.

Author:  makster [ Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

highlandsflyer wrote:
Cracking bike Makster, but surely you would be better shoving a bash ring on instead of losing your granny ring in hilly Dorset?


I'm going to test it on the steepest hills I ride and then make a decision from there.
I get up everything on my 1X9 rigid rock lobster though, so I'll be surprised if I cant do the same on this.
It just makes me have to commit and climb faster :D

Author:  greenstiles [ Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

I used to ride one of our hire 29 ers but just didn't like it, i think very tall people will like them, just as the size of wheel goes up in hight for child, toddler, teen etc..........some short people we used to sell 24 inch wheel bikes to as it was more '' managable '' for them.......still think 26 inch wheel is good for most peeps and no reason to change it apart from getting more sales out of people ( oh i need a rigid, a full sus xc , a full sus DH, a single speed, a 29'er etc )..........a lot of it is wanting to be different but for minimal gains and minimal losses.....have to agree though, cheap ones aren't good, you need a light one to help that slower steering etc.

Author:  wookiee [ Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Anyone have any experience of the Specialized "carve" range??

Author:  dbmtb [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Wheels are weaker for sure than 26".

Spend a lot more time at the shop straightening 29" wheels than I've ever had to do on 26".

Author:  monty dog [ Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Image

Whilst waiting for my new custom titanium frame to arrive, I managed to squeeze some Surly Knard 29x3" tyres onto my P29er - effectively creating a P31er! Accepting I've only got about 1mm tyre clearance on the back so thankfully local conditions are dry and sandy - took it for a spin last night and wow, there's so much grip and the suspension effect of the big fat tyres is really noticeable. Managed to ride up the 'downhill' singletrack - no need to consciously avoid tree roots, simply point an go. Yes, tyres are a kilo each, so take a bit of effort to wind-up, but as an all-day, go anywhere rig it puts a huge grin on my face! FWIW wheels are Velocity P35 rims on Hope hubs.

Author:  Dead Rats [ Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

well worth a read:

http://mbaction.com/Main/News/26er-Vers ... -4713.aspx

Image

horses for courses!

Author:  wookiee [ Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Dead Rats wrote:


Thanks for that have read that one already...Think I am set on giving the 29er thing a go...just need to raise some funds by selling off some of the fleet/spares!

Still unsure what to go for...would like carbon but seems pricey defo going 2nd hand rather than new and I think hardtail rather than full suss...around 1k to spend on something 2nd hand....

Author:  Andy R [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

monty dog wrote:
Image

Whilst waiting for my new custom titanium frame to arrive, I managed to squeeze some Surly Knard 29x3" tyres onto my P29er - effectively creating a P31er!


I don't think that I've ever seen a seatpost with so much layback :shock:

Author:  wookiee [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Andy R wrote:
monty dog wrote:
Image

Whilst waiting for my new custom titanium frame to arrive, I managed to squeeze some Surly Knard 29x3" tyres onto my P29er - effectively creating a P31er!


I don't think that I've ever seen a seatpost with so much layback :shock:


I had more layback in my bmx seat posts of old...that bikes wheels just looks crazy large though!

Author:  monty dog [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Seatpost has 32mm of layback - because I'm running a shorter fork, it steepens the head and seattube by a couple of degrees so the layback puts the saddle where I like it. it'll all be rectified with the new frame which is designed to run a shorter fork and keeping a 69 degree HTA, and keeping the bars level with the saddle. Just been out for another blast - you can lean the whole thing over at ridiculous angles even though it's dry and sandy.

Author:  wookiee [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

monty dog wrote:
Seatpost has 32mm of layback - because I'm running a shorter fork, it steepens the head and seattube by a couple of degrees so the layback puts the saddle where I like it. it'll all be rectified with the new frame which is designed to run a shorter fork and keeping a 69 degree HTA, and keeping the bars level with the saddle. Just been out for another blast - you can lean the whole thing over at ridiculous angles even though it's dry and sandy.


I want a go!!!

Author:  b_hazard@hotmail.com [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

greenstiles wrote:
i think very tall people will like them, just as the size of wheel goes up in hight for child, toddler, teen etc..........


I'm 6' 5", 29ers are one of the the best things that ever happened to me.

After purchasing my trek cobia, for the first month of riding it was absolutely incredible, i could only describe it to my friends as riding a horse, or riding a crosser.

Back in my teens, as equal became unfair, my last growth spurt left me to struggle in many parts of life, door frames, sitting on buses, clothing etc. But the 29er has brought me back to when everything was equal again, and now performance wise i completely destroy, up to date, every single equivalently matching cyclist. I knew i was butch...x

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

b_hazard@hotmail.com wrote:
greenstiles wrote:
i think very tall people will like them, just as the size of wheel goes up in hight for child, toddler, teen etc..........


I'm 6' 5", 29ers are one of the the best things that ever happened to me.

After purchasing my trek cobia, for the first month of riding it was absolutely incredible, i could only describe it to my friends as riding a horse, or riding a crosser.

Back in my teens, as equal became unfair, my last growth spurt left me to struggle in many parts of life, door frames, sitting on buses, clothing etc. But the 29er has brought me back to when everything was equal again, and now performance wise i completely destroy, up to date, every single equivalently matching cyclist. I knew i was butch...x


6'8" here, same deal down to the bike.

Apart from the fast bit. I'm still slow.

Author:  wookiee [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

well I'm just shy of 6ft 4 so thinking this is the way forward also!

Author:  xerxes [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

5' 8" in thick socks. Should I look for a 24er? :D

Author:  wookiee [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

xerxes wrote:
5' 8" in thick socks. Should I look for a 24er? :D



BMX for you sonny!

Author:  Dead Rats [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Image

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic ... bbit-types

:P

Author:  monty dog [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

I'm 5'5" so I guess that chucks out the rule book? I sold my 26er MTB a few years ago and at one point had 3 CX bikes - sold one CX bike, bought the Ritchey P29er frame and taken it from there. I just love the go-anywhere feel of the big-wheeler, I don't need to avoid ruts, roots or rocks.

Author:  wookiee [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

monty dog wrote:
I'm 5'5" so I guess that chucks out the rule book? I sold my 26er MTB a few years ago and at one point had 3 CX bikes - sold one CX bike, bought the Ritchey P29er frame and taken it from there. I just love the go-anywhere feel of the big-wheeler, I don't need to avoid ruts, roots or rocks.


Wow so a 29er frame size for you? 12"?

Author:  wookiee [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

on a serious note tho...smaller size frame for a 29er than a 26er?

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

wookiee wrote:
on a serious note tho...smaller size frame for a 29er than a 26er?


Keep the top tube length roughly the same. For me that meant going down from a 24" 26er to a 21" 29er, but the Trek 29ers are very long for their sizing.

Author:  wookiee [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Joe of Loath wrote:
wookiee wrote:
on a serious note tho...smaller size frame for a 29er than a 26er?


Keep the top tube length roughly the same. For me that meant going down from a 24" 26er to a 21" 29er, but the Trek 29ers are very long for their sizing.



I meant more the frame size...currently find a 23.5-24" toptube suits me but given the extra 3" on the wheels would that equate to 1.5" smaller seat tube than a 26er?

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Depends entirely on the manufacturer. I don't bother looking at seat tube length now, as I know what effective top tube I need.

Author:  wookiee [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Joe of Loath wrote:
Depends entirely on the manufacturer. I don't bother looking at seat tube length now, as I know what effective top tube I need.



Yeah but surely a "ball park" frame size might help!

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

There's no such thing! I've had four mountain bikes in the past year or so. 24", 22", 21", 21". The longest top tube is on the 21", the shortest on the 22".

Your seat post slides, your top tube doesn't.

Author:  wookiee [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Joe of Loath wrote:
There's no such thing! I've had four mountain bikes in the past year or so. 24", 22", 21", 21". The longest top tube is on the 21", the shortest on the 22".

Your seat post slides, your top tube doesn't.



True but my question was coming from a 26" world being used to about an 18"-19" centre to centre seat tube measurement should that be less for a 29er to compensate for the larger wheel?

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Oh sorry I think I get it now. No, I believe it should be the same, since the seattube length doesn't really affect the geometry in any way.

Author:  wookiee [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Joe of Loath wrote:
Oh sorry I think I get it now. No, I believe it should be the same, since the seattube length doesn't really affect the geometry in any way.



Thanks mate! New to the world of 29er been riding 26" for the last 25 years!!

Author:  monty dog [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

wookiee wrote:
Wow so a 29er frame size for you? 12"?


I'm in the process of getting a custom titanium 29er plus frame built with clearance for Surly Knards - frame size comes out at a diddly 298mm centre to centre, a 95mm IS44 headtube and running a 440mm rigid fork to keep the front end low. It'll probably look like the b@stard child of a BMX and a fat bike! Based on my experiences of thrashing my mates on their full-suss 26ers, both uphill and down, I don't care if it looks ridiculous if it leaves a big grin on my face and I won't need to spend a fortune replacing seals and bushes every year.

Author:  wookiee [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

monty dog wrote:
wookiee wrote:
Wow so a 29er frame size for you? 12"?


I'm in the process of getting a custom titanium 29er plus frame built with clearance for Surly Knards - frame size comes out at a diddly 298mm centre to centre, a 95mm IS44 headtube and running a 440mm rigid fork to keep the front end low. It'll probably look like the b@stard child of a BMX and a fat bike! Based on my experiences of thrashing my mates on their full-suss 26ers, both uphill and down, I don't care if it looks ridiculous if it leaves a big grin on my face and I won't need to spend a fortune replacing seals and bushes every year.


Ok when I said 12" I was joking! But hey what ever suits you mate!

Author:  b_hazard@hotmail.com [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

wookiee wrote:
well I'm just shy of 6ft 4 so thinking this is the way forward also!


You'll be just dandy with a 29er 21" / xl frame. At 6' 4" you'll love it. The best bit is the first few rides, head a shoulders mate! And you do feel that you can role over almost any object, especially them smaller breeds that get in ya way!

Dead Rats wrote:
Image
:P

Author:  wookiee [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

b_hazard@hotmail.com wrote:
wookiee wrote:
well I'm just shy of 6ft 4 so thinking this is the way forward also!


You'll be just dandy with a 29er 21" / xl frame. At 6' 4" you'll love it. The best bit is the first few rides, head a shoulders mate! And you do feel that you can role over almost any object, especially them smaller breeds that get in ya way!

[quote="Dead Rats"]

Well I'm selling up at the moment the '08 Marin Rift Zone and the '97 Mount Vision to raise some funds...thinking I will have about 1k to spend on a 2nd hand machine...maybe a bit more...

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Trek Cobia and spend the change on a wheelset. Very capable bike, Gary Fisher did some magic with that geometry.

Author:  wookiee [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Joe of Loath wrote:
Trek Cobia and spend the change on a wheelset. Very capable bike, Gary Fisher did some magic with that geometry.



Hmm a Trek eh? Not considered them...I'll have a look! Have my eye on a couple of Salsa Mamasita's at the mo...any thoughts on those??

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Not keen on the geometry on paper, but I've never ridden one. The Trek 29ers are really slack, and not much comes close.

Author:  wookiee [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

The Trek looks a little basic spec wise and I was hoping for a bit more...as I have said I dont want new and am happy with 2nd hand...

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

If you're looking for XL, you won't find one second hand. At least, I didn't this time last year.

Author:  wookiee [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Joe of Loath wrote:
If you're looking for XL, you won't find one second hand. At least, I didn't this time last year.



I think I could go large (19-20") not XL as despite my 6ft 4 ness I have a long torso and arms and more like a 32" leg!! so top tube length is more of a consideration although a long stem has got me outta that problem before!

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

It's a case of what you can find, then.

Alternatively you could build up your favourite flavour of on-one with a mixture of new and used parts. Someone I know managed to make one for about £450 by cutting a few corners.

Author:  wookiee [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

wookiee wrote:
Joe of Loath wrote:
If you're looking for XL, you won't find one second hand. At least, I didn't this time last year.



I think I could go large (19-20") not XL as despite my 6ft 4 ness I have a long torso and arms and more like a 32" leg!! so top tube length is more of a consideration although a long stem has got me outta that problem before!


...another reason why I have been called Wookiee for so many years! Even my wife says I am like a silver back gorilla!

Author:  wookiee [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Joe of Loath wrote:
It's a case of what you can find, then.

Alternatively you could build up your favourite flavour of on-one with a mixture of new and used parts. Someone I know managed to make one for about £450 by cutting a few corners.



Impressive...I am focusing on a good frame and forks and wheels the lighter the better I can upgrade the mechs shifters as I get more cash

Would love a carbon frame but equally not sure about the weigh limits for riders of carbon bikes!! :lol:

Author:  b_hazard@hotmail.com [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Joe of Loath wrote:
Trek Cobia and spend the change on a wheelset. Very capable bike, Gary Fisher did some magic with that geometry.


yeah i love my trek cobia, its the best thing i've ever purchased.

My budget was also 1k, after months of research my shortlist was these 3 29ers:

kona kahuna
giant talon
trek cobia

Check them out, i recently had a look at the kona kahuna on the chain reactions website, it does look a good bike too.

However from my experience with the trek cobia, its absolutely fantastic.

Author:  wookiee [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

b_hazard@hotmail.com wrote:
Joe of Loath wrote:
Trek Cobia and spend the change on a wheelset. Very capable bike, Gary Fisher did some magic with that geometry.


yeah i love my trek cobia, its the best thing i've ever purchased.

My budget was also 1k, after months of research my shortlist was these 3 29ers:

kona kahuna
giant talon
trek cobia

Check them out, i recently had a look at the kona kahuna on the chain reactions website, it does look a good bike too.

However from my experience with the trek cobia, its absolutely fantastic.


hmm is that 1k new price?

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

I got mine end of season for £765.

Author:  wookiee [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

I have only ever bought a new bike back in 1991! Its been used since then and I have always got better value for money! So thats the way I think I will go with the 29er...a £1700 bike for more like £1200....

Author:  b_hazard@hotmail.com [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Mine was new £850 from evans summer of 2011

Seen one go on ebay for £400'ish recently, small frame size tho.

Author:  wookiee [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

A few of my current watchers on the bay...what do you recon?? (opinions welcome!)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231020813952? ... 1438.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221256590824? ... 1438.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360704670615? ... 1438.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130954195042? ... 1438.l2649

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

They're all great bikes, and you'd be happy with any of them.

Author:  wookiee [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Joe of Loath wrote:
They're all great bikes, and you'd be happy with any of them.


:lol: that doesn't help me much! What would be you order of preference!?

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Whichever's cheapest!

Author:  b_hazard@hotmail.com [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

if i was you, i'd look out for a 2yr old stock bike, don't go near custom builds.

Author:  wookiee [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

..2012 Kona King Kahuna....? 50% off original price???

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=95385

Author:  b_hazard@hotmail.com [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

wookiee wrote:
..2012 Kona King Kahuna....? 50% off original price???

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=95385


i was refering to the kona kahuna deluxe as its under your 1k budget, looks a decent bike.

Author:  wookiee [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

b_hazard@hotmail.com wrote:
wookiee wrote:
..2012 Kona King Kahuna....? 50% off original price???

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=95385


i was refering to the kona kahuna deluxe as its under your 1k budget, looks a decent bike.


My 1k budget is slightly flexable...just means I have to sell more of the fleet off!! I have a shed load on ebay at the moment! But still loads left in the man cave!!

The King Kahuna just seems really good value for money...which at the same time makes me a little suspicious! I know BITD Kona were a respected brand...what about today??

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Depends who you ask. According to pinkbike, kona suck and will explode just by looking at them. To the rest of us they're still a great brand.

Author:  wookiee [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Joe of Loath wrote:
Depends who you ask. According to pinkbike, kona suck and will explode just by looking at them. To the rest of us they're still a great brand.



Hmm interesting...are pinkbike listened too?? It seems the world and his brother would go for a Specialized!

Author:  b_hazard@hotmail.com [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

I've no idea about the reputation of kona bikes nowadays, on paper the king kahuna looks an impressive bike, and does the kahuna deluxe look a good budget bike.

I've owned 26" kona and specialized mountain bikes in recent years. Being the kona kikapu and the specialized rockhopper. The specialized certainly came out on top for me. I loved that rockhopper, I would still be riding that now if the bike fit me like my 29er, was a great bike and an absolute beaut to look at too..

I'll be interested which way you go on this, i guess you should look at treks and specialized 29ers. A good starting point.
I think Specialized may be a little more pricy but i don't know for sure.

Me and joe both rate our cobia's highly. I totally recommend the cobia.

Author:  wookiee [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

b_hazard@hotmail.com wrote:
I've no idea about the reputation of kona bikes nowadays, on paper the king kahuna looks an impressive bike, and does the kahuna deluxe look a good budget bike.

I've owned 26" kona and specialized mountain bikes in recent years. Being the kona kikapu and the specialized rockhopper. The specialized certainly came out on top for me. I loved that rockhopper, I would still be riding that now if the bike fit me like my 29er, was a great bike and an absolute beaut to look at too..

I'll be interested which way you go on this, i guess you should look at treks and specialized 29ers. A good starting point.
I think Specialized may be a little more pricy but i don't know for sure.

Me and joe both rate our cobia's highly. I totally recommend the cobia.



Had a go on a Specialized stumpjumper carbon 29er today really liked it but it was £2300...the Kona has very similar geometry and is £1300...

...the Kona is looking like the winner at the moment!

Author:  coomber [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Kona looks nice. I would look at on one complete builds too.

Kona has one issue for.mw and that is their rrp. I doubt amyone has ever paid it since 2005. I.e. That 50% off only brings it down to what other brands sell at. For full rrp the spec is pretty low end.

That said its a lot of bike for the price its now at. My local bike shop had the makuna (?) or whatever the lowest kona in the range is and it looked smart but I never took it for a spin.

Author:  coomber [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

I am definately keen to try a 29er but still not seen one out in the real world and trails!

Author:  wookiee [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Those who know me know my love of Marin....maybe that could be where I'm going if I can raise enough cash!!!! SELL SELL SELL!

Author:  Chopper1192 [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Giant have announced they're going to go the 650B route for their entire MTB range and will be phasing out 29ers over the next year or so. Seeing as they're the world's biggest cycle manufacturer it doubtless won't be long before their rivals fall into line. So if you want one do so now while parts and spares at plentiful.

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

No, Giant said they might phase out 29ers, depending on what the market does. Considering how XC is now 90% 29ers, I don't see that changing any time soon.

Plus, all us tall folks have cottoned on. They can pry my 29er from my cold, dead hands!

Author:  wookiee [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Joe of Loath wrote:
Plus, all us tall folks have cottoned on. They can pry my 29er from my cold, dead hands!


This is one of my main reasons!

Author:  Chopper1192 [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Yes, giant have announced they WILL be phasing out 29ers over the next season or so...

http://m.bikemag.com/gear/news-giant-go ... with-27-5/

Giants global marketing manager, Andrew Juskaitis, says of 29ers...

"We are not going to turn off the tap entirely this year but we do have plans to phase it out over time". That's pretty unequivocal.

I'm quite tall at 6'3" (and 3/4 - very important that!) And was happy to let my Carve go. It did have advantages, but they were more than offset by the extra weight, extra flex in the wheels, slower acceleration, ponderous slow speed handling, but mostly the extra surface area of the tyres made a tremendous difference the the weight of mud and clag they would collect in wet conditions. As someone who rides 365 days a year, that was a very bad negative. I'm after a nice flighty 29 for dry weather(hoping to blag a Genesis on loan to try that's caught my eye) but the 26" Trance is in a different league in typical "British" conditions.

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Oh right, I read the news on Pinkbike and that quote wasn't on there.

I doubt it'll happen, there are too many people now who like big wheels.

Author:  Chopper1192 [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

It'll happen. I work in th industry, if only peripherally, and I'm still not seeing many about, even among those spending big moolah. I'm not the only person I know who's dipped the toe, been unconvinced and then gone back.

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

The industry is very US-centric though, and it seems that everyone and their dog has a 29er over there. Or is that just the demographic I see?

Author:  coomber [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Nothing to suggest 650b wont start selling massively in US now though. People can only buy whats offered to them.

The argument that it id established as 29ers have won xc titles means little when riders continue to do so on 26 and 650b as well.

Im just glad I dont need to buy a new bike. My next new bike will probably be in 2 years time so I hope the wheel debate has settled by then!

Author:  wookiee [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

At the end of the day I see it like this....my retro rides, well my Team Marin, is for life it is what it is and for the time it was made it was/is sweet....My modern rides?....well if I need to change them every few years then so be it! But for now I have ridden a 29er and liked it disregarding any hype and sales pitch it just worked for me...just as a full suss worked for me in the past etc etc I see no harm in evolving I believe in Darwin not Religion! (cue back lash!)

Author:  coomber [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Fair enough. I tend to keep my bikes for a while and anyone else similar has a tough decision. If nothing else for part x value or re-sale value.

Everyone seems to forget the 24" wheel hype around the late 90s. Remember it being prototypes if not actually used for main downhill teams.

Author:  coomber [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Just to repeat that I've no experience of 29er but I really want to try one. Just think the debate on wheel sizes does harm sales. I've a modern 26" I love, but newbies wanting to spend some cash or people upgrading must have a dilema.

Author:  wookiee [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

...well I'm going to give a 29er a go! Pic this fella up on Weds...Carbon Marin CXR Team 29er...full XTR, Bontrager RXL Wheels and weighing in around 22lbs. Better pics and a ride report will be forthcoming...

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Author:  Joe of Loath [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Ooh, lovely!

Author:  wookiee [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Joe of Loath wrote:
Ooh, lovely!



Hopefully! I have a 1991 Team Marin and soon a 2011 Team Marin...lets see what 20 years of experience does to it! lol

Author:  Pyro Tim [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

:lol: :lol: I knew you would

Author:  coomber [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Looks nice but have to say it's brave going straight in to an xtr cladded bling machine! Might as well try the best see if you like it I suppose!

Author:  wookiee [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Pyro Tim wrote:
:lol: :lol: I knew you would



Well I'm predictable if nothing less! ...but its a Marin...but its carbon...but its dripping in XTR lol

Author:  wookiee [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

coomber wrote:
Looks nice but have to say it's brave going straight in to an xtr cladded bling machine! Might as well try the best see if you like it I suppose!



My thinking is buy the best you can afford...It took selling 2 of my bikes to afford it and my thinking is if the worst happens and I hate it then at least I can get my money back as the components are high spec...

...Hopefully I'll just love it lol

Author:  coomber [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Not knocking it mate, sorry hard to tell when you read it. Certainly an amazing weight

Author:  wookiee [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

coomber wrote:
Not knocking it mate, sorry hard to tell when you read it. Certainly an amazing weight



I was considering the Kona King Kahuna quite seriously but the Marin is better specced and a good deal lighter and...well its a Marin my brand of choice!

we'll see when I pick it up hopefully it will be all I have hoped for...

Author:  coomber [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

You had the full susser for a while so the move to a "modern" bike won't feel weird for you, but keen to see what you think after a few shakedown rides.

Author:  wookiee [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

coomber wrote:
You had the full susser for a while so the move to a "modern" bike won't feel weird for you, but keen to see what you think after a few shakedown rides.



We'll see...looking forward to a few rides in anger...but going from the Rift Zone at around 30lbs and the 1991 Team 25lb something, it will be nice to ride something lighter with suss forks and penny farthing wheels lol

Author:  wookiee [ Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

So picked the bad boy up this morning...god I love just looking at it! Only had a 20 min blast on it so far but feels nice! I need to get used to the wider bars. And the fact that the disc brakes are brand new so are howling at the moment until they bed in (any advice on how to stop the howling banshee appreciated!) So the headlines:

- 2011 Marin CXR Team carbon frame
- Bontrager RXL scandium wheels (new) with new Schwalbe racing ralph snake bite tyres.
- Mix of brand new and very good XTR M988/M985/M980 in the drivetrain and brakes.
- Carbon Easton bars and post.
- Fox Evo F100RL forks
- Syncros saddle


Weighed it on my luggage scales at 21.58 lbs!!! Which I think for a hardtail 29er is very respectable!

May not be everyones cup of cha but I love it and despite some thoughts that the 29er bubble is peaking or already burst it feels right for me!

Doug

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Author:  jimplops [ Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Very nice, I've said all along that 29ers are for taller folks, they look right whereas a large 26er just looks like a bed frame.

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Very nice. RE the brakes, ride up and down the road a few times with the brakes on. If that doesn't help, clean the rotors and sand the pads down a little.

Author:  wookiee [ Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

jimplops wrote:
Very nice, I've said all along that 29ers are for taller folks, they look right whereas a large 26er just looks like a bed frame.


Totally agree with the "gate" syndrome with large framed 26er...and with my longer arms feels like bike for the larger rider and my broad shoulders makes the larger width of bars seem more natural...

Author:  wookiee [ Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Joe of Loath wrote:
Very nice. RE the brakes, ride up and down the road a few times with the brakes on. If that doesn't help, clean the rotors and sand the pads down a little.



Yeah going to try and bed in the brakes tomorrow...When out in the woods at the back of my house today, I came down a steep descent and applied the brakes and I heard the distant bark of a dog responding to my brake howl lol

Author:  highlandsflyer [ Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Chopper1192 wrote:
It'll happen. I work in th industry, if only peripherally, and I'm still not seeing many about, even among those spending big moolah. I'm not the only person I know who's dipped the toe, been unconvinced and then gone back.


Does anyone remember back in the 90s when everyone was predicting hardtails would be obsolete?

Author:  Joe of Loath [ Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Or when FS and disk brakes were just a fad (I don't remember, I'm not old enough).

Author:  wookiee [ Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

highlandsflyer wrote:
Chopper1192 wrote:
It'll happen. I work in th industry, if only peripherally, and I'm still not seeing many about, even among those spending big moolah. I'm not the only person I know who's dipped the toe, been unconvinced and then gone back.


Does anyone remember back in the 90s when everyone was predicting hardtails would be obsolete?



Ha yeah...and on the recent 2013 Mountain Mayhem race I would say that at least 60% if not more were 29ers...

Author:  wookiee [ Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

Joe of Loath wrote:
Or when FS and disk brakes were just a fad (I don't remember, I'm not old enough).



Well I am and yes! :lol:

Author:  highlandsflyer [ Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

The industry will always jump on the latest means to sell new bikes. The manufacturing base in the East is vast, if they can produce frames for the peanuts they do I can't see why they would stop producing anything that has a place in the market. It is not as if it is uneconomical to continue producing 'less popular' frame sizes, after all the margin on mass produced frames is massive.

Author:  wookiee [ Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Educate me on the wonders of 29ers!

highlandsflyer wrote:
The industry will always jump on the latest means to sell new bikes. The manufacturing base in the East is vast, if they can produce frames for the peanuts they do I can't see why they would stop producing anything that has a place in the market. It is not as if it is uneconomical to continue producing 'less popular' frame sizes, after all the margin on mass produced frames is massive.


Well hopefully the 29er "fad" will last a few years if not more...Despite any hype it suits me and my size but may not be for everyone...

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