Retrobike
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/

Rapid rise rear mech.
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=257598

Author:  montytri [ Fri May 24, 2013 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Rapid rise rear mech.

Is it possible to use ordinary shifters with a rapid rise rear mech.

Author:  Piers [ Fri May 24, 2013 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

Yes

Author:  Raging_Bulls [ Fri May 24, 2013 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

Sure is, but keep in mind it'll do the exact opposite of what you'll expect.
I put that combination on a friend's bike last year and keep messing up the gears whenever I need to ride it.

Author:  jimo746 [ Fri May 24, 2013 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

Piers wrote:
Yes


Agreed. I changed to a RR rear mech recently and to be honest I think I prefer it, took me couple of rides to get 100% used to it, but shifting "up" the cassette seems more responsive.

Author:  hamster [ Sat May 25, 2013 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

Wait until the spring weakens, then it will up shift whenever you stomp on the pedals...

Author:  montytri [ Sun May 26, 2013 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

Somebody else has recently said the same thing about the weak spring, i'm now thinking it might not be such a good idea.

Author:  jimo746 [ Sun May 26, 2013 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

How long does it take for the spring to weaken?

Author:  Chopper1192 [ Sun May 26, 2013 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

Depends how often you ride it and change gear. The boys are right, a slack RR mech is a pain, whereas a slack top normal Will usually unacceptably well until something falls off it entirely.

Author:  mattr [ Sun May 26, 2013 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

jimo746 wrote:
How long does it take for the spring to weaken?
years and years and years. My original xtr rr rear mech (951?) only got binned when I smacked it off a rock, after I'd been using it for about 8 seasons/years, still worked until the moment of impact. Some of the bits live on in a newer xtr rr. I've also got the latest and greatest xtr rr on my best bike and another one of some description on my fs.
All of them all work perfectly. (As does the xt rr on my wife's winter bike)

I'm actually putting off going to 10 speed on my best bike as I'll have to ditch the rr.

A mate is also still running an original xtr rr on an old proflex carbon.

Author:  jimo746 [ Sun May 26, 2013 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

I guess the spring will last as long as in a regular mech, which is probably many years, or at least longer than I will have the bike, probably.

Author:  hamster [ Tue May 28, 2013 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

Indeed it lasts as long. The difference is that in RR the spring is used on its own to make a downshift. So it is pushing against chain tension. On a conventional (high-normal) mech, the spring works with chain tension to make an upshift.
A weak spring gives a sluggish up-shift for a conventional mech, but no jumping. A weak RR spring means a jump up the gears every time you stomp on the pedals - usually when you are climbing. Decide accordingly.

Author:  montytri [ Tue May 28, 2013 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

Thanks for all the info lads, i've decided to give the rr a miss, more trouble than it's worth.

Author:  Chopper1192 [ Tue May 28, 2013 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

That's what Shimanos customers thought when they defected in droves to SRAM. RR did more for SRAM sales than anymore their own products ever did.

Author:  montytri [ Tue May 28, 2013 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

I'm getting confused here between rapid rise and reverse action, is there a difference or are they the same.
The mech i have is reverse action.

Author:  careful now [ Tue May 28, 2013 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

Same thing, i think, rr are great i reckon,more intuitive as both derailers work the same way.

Author:  montytri [ Tue May 28, 2013 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

Are you running it with the matching shifters or ordinary shifters.

Author:  careful now [ Tue May 28, 2013 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

matching shifters?

Author:  Wasmachineman NL [ Tue May 28, 2013 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

Dual Control shifters:
Image

Author:  careful now [ Tue May 28, 2013 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

I've run 'em with dura-ace 7600 bar end jobbies,and normal rapid fire ones,both were fine and dandy,although not as pimp as those ^

Author:  Woz [ Wed May 29, 2013 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

Never tried a RR; felt it was solving a non-existent problem on the rear. Better to rely on a cable forced down-shift (bigger sprocket) rather than depend on a spring. Never understood why Shimano didn't put more research on the FD where you could have a good reliable down-shift to the granny regardless of spring strength.

Author:  mattr [ Thu May 30, 2013 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

It meant the downshift happened when it was "safe" to do so, using the gates and shift features. Rather than smashing the chain across the block.
If you are a multiple chain smasher or a low cadence gear masher, probably not for you. I find it really useful.

And Sachs (i think) had a modern reverse sprung front mech (80s?). It didn't last long.

Author:  montytri [ Thu May 30, 2013 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

I've changed my mind again, after weighing up the pros and cons, it seems to make sense and worth giving it a go.
Got a race on Sunday, think ill wait till after then so i can do some training runs with it.

Author:  Chopper1192 [ Thu May 30, 2013 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

It's a dead end now anyway with e-XTR just around the corner. If it's as decent a the road electric groupsets then it's going to to make mechanical changing a dead end. Just look how often the mechanical road groupsets get a full revamp compared to mountain bike ones where there is currently no Shimano electric shifting.

Author:  hamster [ Thu May 30, 2013 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

Hmm: water, electricity, thin wires, collisions...what can possibly go wrong? :facepalm:

Sounds like another wheeze from Shimano's marketing boys to make us break (and therefore replace) stuff more often. :lol:

Author:  Chopper1192 [ Thu May 30, 2013 9:38 am ]
Post subject: 

Unfortunately, on the road bike It's proven to be vastly more durable and less maintenance sensitive than mechanical systems. Having proven most unequivocally that they can do it once, I'm sure they'll have little difficulty doing it a second time. Before you'd Even started typing they'd proven you wrong in that score.

Author:  Woz [ Thu May 30, 2013 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

mattr wrote:
It meant the downshift happened when it was "safe" to do so, using the gates and shift features. Rather than smashing the chain across the block.
If you are a multiple chain smasher or a low cadence gear masher, probably not for you. I find it really useful.

And Sachs (i think) had a modern reverse sprung front mech (80s?). It didn't last long.


Interesting. Never thought about it that way - speaking as an impatient low cadence gear masher :)

Technically though, isn't that what the famous Centurion floating top jockey wheel was for? To give a bit
of play slightly independent of what is happening on the rear shifter / cable pull?

Would be great to try the Sachs FD to see it's performance. Wonder why it didn't last....technical reasons,
marketing reasons or the usual patent issues driving it obsolete I suppose.

Author:  mattr [ Fri May 31, 2013 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Chopper1192 wrote:
It's a dead end now anyway with e-XTR just around the corner.
Pretty much, i'll be holding off any major groupset changes until i absolutely have to (i have a "number" of RR rear mechs to choose from, and good 9 speed chains/cassettes are freely available).

I suspect e-XTR will be the next version, due for the 2015MY, so bits available late 2014. (I understand that the current XTR changes are considered to be a mild freshening rather than a full on new groupset)
Chopper1192 wrote:
Unfortunately, on the road bike It's proven to be vastly more durable and less maintenance sensitive than mechanical systems. Having proven most unequivocally that they can do it once, I'm sure they'll have little difficulty doing it a second time. Before you'd Even started typing they'd proven you wrong in that score.
And Di2 has been used very successfully in WC level CX racing. Even in thick mud.

Author:  hamster [ Fri May 31, 2013 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

Chopper1192 wrote:
Unfortunately, on the road bike It's proven to be vastly more durable and less maintenance sensitive than mechanical systems. Having proven most unequivocally that they can do it once, I'm sure they'll have little difficulty doing it a second time. Before you'd Even started typing they'd proven you wrong in that score.


There were some nasty breakdowns in pro races in the past couple of years.

There is a world of difference between what works on the race circuit and for the rest of us. Durability is barely a consideration for them, for example.
Bearing in mind my Campag 9 speed road kit goes more than 2000 miles without even tweaking the shift adjustment, it's a hard act to follow.

I'll watch, skeptically. 8)

Author:  mattr [ Fri May 31, 2013 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

hamster wrote:
I'll watch, skeptically. 8)
They have plenty of breakdowns with mechanical groups, you see the mechanic hanging out of a car tweaking gears fairly often. It's not an activity for the faint hearted!
And the longest serving Di2 user i know has around 30000 miles on one 7970 groupset, all he's done is clean it, swap out consumables and recharge the battery. (That's a full season of racing then 2 years as a training bike) And there are plenty of other people approaching (or exceeding) that mileage. And by all accounts the gen 2 stuff is another step up.

Author:  shaun [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

I personally find RR great for racing as it gives me an edge when having to beak hard and shift down rapidly into a corner. Also when climbing out of the saddle and leaning forward its far easier to change down as the climb steepens or your legs tire. I believe RR was developed purly to help teams and racers lap slightly faster and therefore, weak spring or not, is deemed more cool and rare than normal shifting rear mechs. :wink:

Author:  montytri [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

I fitted the rear mech and no matter what i did i couldn't get it to index properly, it would change from say 1st to 2nd then jump to 4th.
I gave up out of sheer frustration, but having said that i did see how quickly it changed down gear and i can see the potential.
Anybody any ideas on fixing the indexing problem.

Author:  mattr [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

They index in exactly the same way as conventional mechs.
So fixes would be new cables, straightened hangers, making sure the cable is on the right side of the pinch bolt and so on.....

Author:  montytri [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

I've tried all that, i went through everything to make sure it was all aligned and used a new cable, i have noticed since taking it off, that the wheel that assists the cable is chewed up a bit and not running smoothly, i'll sort that out and try again.

Author:  mattr [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rapid rise rear mech.

If the wheels knackered, it may be curtains for the mech, i've had them jam in the past, need careful cleaning and keeping free running.
I suspect that is what your issue will be.

All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/