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 Post subject: Re: One word for you...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:06 am 
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yo-eddy wrote:
I've been mountainbiking (and travelling by bike) for over 25 years, first 19 years with normal gears, switched to Rohloff 6 years back and nver had it fail on me, I'm a big lad at 6ft5 and 95kg. Shimano cassette body's failed on me twice a year (tried every type over the years) Rohloff IS pretty much bombproof (and not to compare with any other internal geared hub).
I've ridden several marathons where conventional mechs failed in big numbers because of the muddy conditions.

Do you really think that motorized vehicle only have their gears boxed safely because of overheating ........ sure being exposed to sand and mud would have no influence on the gearbox wearing out? How often do you replace the gearbox on your car?

I just can't believe the MTB industry keeps focussing on reinventing a bad system in the first place and
strongly encourage companies like Rohloff ad Pinion to make progress in the right direction.

I have been riding bikes for over 30 years, with at least 25 of those years using the 'bad system' as you put it??? Never had a problem with the 'bad system' myself.
I don't see the Rohloff system as the 'right direction', it's just a different direction that is very expensive, heavy and not the fail safe system that you claim it is.

Again, you can't compare a motorised gearbox to a pedal power gearbox, and for the record, I had to replace the gearbox on my van last year because the seals failed, it emptied itself of oil and then seized. I wonder how many times that has happened to Rohloff systems........... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: One word for you...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:14 am 
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I agree about gear hubs...they're an alternative but the cost, weight, complexity etc mean that they won't be the answer.

The idea of exposed gears does seem mad for an off road bike, but it does work. It's relatively cheap, easy to self service, easy to repair on the fly and they work. I've been riding for 13 years and have generally had good life out of my cassettes and chains, even in the Peaks. I do however make an effort to keep them clean etc.

Current mechs work so well that I can't see them going anywhere soon.


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 Post subject: Re: One word for you...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:23 am 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
yo-eddy wrote:
Rohloff invented their hub in 1997, that is 15 years ago, and you guys still have all your gears hanging on the outside of your offroad vehicle :facepalm:

Yes, Rohloff invented their hub in 1997, and its still relatively heavy, expensive, sensitive to servicing, not user repairable in the event of failure (im an amateur powerlifter, and much bigger and heavier than yo-eddy and can confirm DO fail now and again) and has a limited range of gearing.   I can't believe you don't have your gears hanging on the outside if your bike when it overcomes all these disadvantages.

They are good in their own way, but bring as many problems as they solve on HT' s and are utterly irrelevant on full squidger where unsprung mass is the 8 th deadly sin. They're an alternative, not the answer.

It's tricky to predict where future development might take either system. You would hope hub gear manufacturers would overcome the in the near future, but hub gears have been around far longer than derailleurs, and they haven't done so yet.



Really "sensitive to service" ? please explain?
So, I pressume you had yours fail on you permanently on several occasions? please give me some details
As for gearing range : http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/rohl ... sions.html

Yes, it's not perfect but far more reliable than any conventional gear system and it's thinking in the right direction imho


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 Post subject: Re: One word for you...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:30 am 
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1210tech wrote:
Again, you can't compare a motorised gearbox to a pedal power gearbox, and for the record, I had to replace the gearbox on my van last year because the seals failed, it emptied itself of oil and then seized. I wonder how many times that has happened to Rohloff systems........... :lol:


Please do your homework, you obviously never used a Rohloff, they can loose all their oil and still work 100%
" once the hub has been filled with oil, it is then impossible to drain enough oil from the hub to cause a lubrication failure "


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 Post subject: Re: One word for you...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:37 am 
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1210tech wrote:
I have been riding bikes for over 30 years, with at least 25 of those years using the 'bad system' as you put it??? Never had a problem with the 'bad system' myself.
I don't see the Rohloff system as the 'right direction', it's just a different direction that is very expensive, heavy and not the fail safe system that you claim it is.


So, 30 years without ever having a stick in your rear mech, a proper chain suck that ripped your mech off or broke your chain, a bend mech from rocky terrain or transporing your bike in a car/plane ....... I would buy a lottery ticket right now if I were you :D


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 Post subject: Re: One word for you...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:40 am 
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Hub gears first materialised in the mid 1880s. Parallelism derailleur in them 1930s. Despite the advantages of an additional 50 years or development the hub gear is still far from smiting all before it.

It's the Wankel (snigger) engine of the bicycle world. Good in its own way, but it's own disadvantages negate the benefits. I like em, but without some big advance in the state of the art they'll continue bring a new shortcoming of their own for each problem they solve.

Sensitive to servicing - yes, shifting performance will degrade through lack of serving, but it takes some mileage. However, once they have been allowed to get that far they need a specialist overhaul - I'm Cytec qualified and have an MSc in a field of physics, and there ain't no way I'd consider a full strip, though a basic oil-bath service is within the scope of many riders.

And yes, I've had one fail on me terminally, believed by the repairing agent because a 116kg powerlifter wad managing to put too much torque though it in the lower gears - the internals had simply churned into a metallic mush. They do recommend a max rear sprocket size to prevent torque damage, but being quite weighty and being able to squat over 3 times my own weight it seems I managed to exceed even the official safe limit. yes, working in an area of the trade as I do its not the only failure I've come across, although you'll never encounter many because only a tiny proportion of bikes have them.

Indestructible and everlasting they are not. Probably tougher, within limits, than the typical derailleur, but when your mech goes south you'll be sorting it on your kitchen table, possible fire cost if only cleaner and lube - unless you're Adam Steltzner you ain't gonna be fixing a Rohloff in the kitchen, and if it's busted isn't gonna cone back with a strip and clean.

Fir every benefit, that's that lovely shiny Rohloff drawback.

PS, when will people stop quoting Sheldon? Nice albeit I'm sure, but reports are that his trousers went on one leg at a time each morning, same as everyone else's.

Pps - in 40 years of cycling I've never had chainsuck, because I know how to set up and maintain a bike. I've very rarely had any mech trouble, and definitely nothing that couldn't be fixed at the roadside in seconds with very basic tools. I've only owned one Rohloff kitted bike, a Genesis frame I'd built up myself, and it broke, requiring several months before the importer authorised a new hub yo be relaced into my wheel. Go figure.


Last edited by Chopper1192 on Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: One word for you...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:43 am 
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yo-eddy wrote:
1210tech wrote:
Again, you can't compare a motorised gearbox to a pedal power gearbox, and for the record, I had to replace the gearbox on my van last year because the seals failed, it emptied itself of oil and then seized. I wonder how many times that has happened to Rohloff systems........... :lol:


Please do your homework, you obviously never used a Rohloff, they can loose all their oil and still work 100%
" once the hub has been filled with oil, it is then impossible to drain enough oil from the hub to cause a lubrication failure "

That's correct, I have never and will never use a system that costs so much and is not 100% reliable, weighs more than the 'bad system' and requires fiddly oil changes


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 Post subject: Re: One word for you...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:48 am 
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yo-eddy wrote:
1210tech wrote:
I have been riding bikes for over 30 years, with at least 25 of those years using the 'bad system' as you put it??? Never had a problem with the 'bad system' myself.
I don't see the Rohloff system as the 'right direction', it's just a different direction that is very expensive, heavy and not the fail safe system that you claim it is.


So, 30 years without ever having a stick in your rear mech, a proper chain suck that ripped your mech off or broke your chain, a bend mech from rocky terrain or transporing your bike in a car/plane ....... I would buy a lottery ticket right now if I were you :D


I use to rid a lot of DH and some really rocky terrain and my mechs always lasted well. Sure they got a few knocks and scuffs, but nothing catastrophic.

Have had chain suck but that's usually down to poor set up. Also broken a few chains, but since swapping to Sram that's been a thing of the past.

Cost is the biggest barrier to the gear box / internal gear hub. The new narrower shadow mech also make clearance better,so there is less chance of the mech getting ripped off.


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 Post subject: Re: One word for you...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:49 am 
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Can't have a lubrication failure? Utter rubbish.

Even if not a drop leaks out you can still suffer a lubrication failure. Go read up on 'shear'.


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 Post subject: Re: One word for you...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:51 am 
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yo-eddy wrote:
1210tech wrote:
I have been riding bikes for over 30 years, with at least 25 of those years using the 'bad system' as you put it??? Never had a problem with the 'bad system' myself.
I don't see the Rohloff system as the 'right direction', it's just a different direction that is very expensive, heavy and not the fail safe system that you claim it is.


So, 30 years without ever having a stick in your rear mech, a proper chain suck that ripped your mech off or broke your chain, a bend mech from rocky terrain or transporing your bike in a car/plane ....... I would buy a lottery ticket right now if I were you :D

Again, that's correct, I have never had a stick damage or bend a chain/derailleur, I have never had chain suck to the extent that it ripped off a derailleur, only removing a bit of paint, and I have never damaged a derailleur transporting my bike in a car.

However, I have had a chain snap, but that was fixed in a matter of minutes by replacing a link while out on the trails, it didn't require me to send the gear system back to factory to be fixed. I have also lost a pulley from a derailleur but that was my own stupid fault for not making sure the pulley bolt was tight enough after stripping & cleaning the mech

I bought a lottery ticket last night, but alas, I didn't win :cry:


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