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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:35 pm 
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I have just taken delivery of my new Easton Havoc wheels which are proper UST jobbies, so rims with no spoke holes in them.

My questions relate mainly to tyres...currently I run Maxxis DH single ply tyres. These are non-UST and are not available as proper tubeless versions. Will I be able to run them tubeless with some sealant? I know that some people manage too. They haven't been used that much, but my concern is that the beads are not that tight, so they were easy to get on my current rims.

Or am I better off buying something like a Schwable Hans Dampf which is properly tubeless ready? If I do this, how much sealant is needed? I hoping for a bit if a weight saving. The wheels are pretty light and the Schwable tyres would be a further saving of 200g against my current tyres so I was hoping that removing the tubes would trim a bit more rotational weight off my bike.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:32 pm 
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Cant help tyre wise but i think its normally 50/60ml sealent per tyre?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:20 am 
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Location: Platsa, Messinias, Greece
About 80ml here, with 2.35"-2.40" tyres like Nobby Nics and Hans Dampfs.
As far as your Maxxis tyres go - I'd just try them and see. Whatever you use you'll need a track pump with high volume output and/or a Coke bottle style "pneumatic accumulator" or, of course, a compressor.
You could use a CO2 cartridge to initially seat the tyre but do this without sealant added, as Stan's tends to "clump" if you use CO2 - it doesn't like the sudden cold, I suppose.

To initially seat the tyre it helps if you remove the valve core to do this as the air flow is far greater, which is what you need. Then you need some deft fingerwork to remove the inflator and refit the core without losing all your pressure......
I usually let the tyre sit a while inflated but without sealant at about 30psi, then slowly deflate it (I usually hang the wheel off the ground while I'm doing this, valve at the bottom) and then add the sealant with a syringe.
Hopefully the beads will stay in place and re-inflation will be straightforward, although sometimes you have to do the core out bit again.
Then the normal "sealant shake" and you're done.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:31 am 
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Are the rims proper UST, with a locking groove and suchlike, or just a stans style beadlock, with a bit of a rib to hold the tyres in place?

Either way, if you don't manage to get them to work with compressor/CO2, you could fit them with a tube, until both beads pop into place, then unmount one side, remove the tube, fit the valve and try again, then you only have one side to attach. One of the benefits of rims of that type.

And your maxxis should be fine, another trick is to turn them inside out for a few hours before you fit them, pushes the beads further apart, and holds them better against the rim sidewalls. (and yes, 50-60 ml of sealant, two scoops, generally does it for any moderately substantial tyre. Anything fragile or lightweight tends to need a little more!)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:51 am 
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You can run regular tyres with UST rims and run them as tubless tyres. As has been mentioned above, put plenty of sealant in as the sidewalls/beads might 'leak' slightly to begin with. I'd also recommend using an air compressor initially, just to pop the beads into place and make the initial seal.

Or just run the tyres with regular inner tubes (presta valve so that you can remove the core to pour the sealant in), and put the sealant in the inner tube, rather than in the tyre... That way you can use whatever tyres you like and not have to faff about trying to get the initial seal*


*I haven't tried this myself, but I don't see a reason why it wouldn't work.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:21 am 
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Right, as a bit of an addendum to what I wrote earlier this morning -

I've just fitted a pair of the new(ish) On-One tyres to my singlespeed (Chunky Monkey 29"x2.4" and Smorgasbord 26"x2.25", both dual compound "Trail Extreme). These are on Sun Ringle EQ27 rims with yellow tape.
The Smorgasbord was in good shape from the word go and just needed a blast with the ghetto "pneumatic accumulator" to seat it (with the valve core removed, of course). Then 60ml of sealant, re-inflate, swiftly fit the core, inflate to 25 psi and it's good to go.
The Chunky Monkey looked sort of creased when I unpacked it yesterday, so I fitted it to the wheel yesterday evening with a tube in and left it in a warm place overnight.
This morning it looked in better shape and went on just the same as the rear after that.
Took less than 30 minutes for both.

The relevance to this thread is that -
a) these are both made by Maxxis on, I believe, Ardent carcasses so will have the same sizing
b) neither required levers to fit so could be seen as "loose fitting".

I'm confident that they'll be fine (more than fine, in fact), they have good sidewall integrity (no pinhole leaks) have that nice Maxxis "supetacky" feel on the shoulder studs and they're cheap, to boot.
Tyres are my real weakness - you can keep your flashy boutique components, just give me tyres to play with 8) .
Out for a test ride now, before it rains :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:26 am 
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Cheers chaps. I think I'll wait to go tubeless until I get tubeless ready tyres...I'm pretty sure that my current tyres won't be tight enough...they went onto my current rims far too easily.

The rims are proper UST.

Andy R...how to you get on with the Hans Dampfs? Some people say they ate draggy, but surely they can't be any worse than my current tyres. They'll also be a bit lighter.

I didn't realise that you don't need all that much sealant, so that'll hopefully way a bit less than my tubes.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:43 am 
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Mindmap3 wrote:
Andy R...how to you get on with the Hans Dampfs? Some people say they ate draggy, but surely they can't be any worse than my current tyres. They'll also be a bit lighter.


I currently have a pair on my Trek Top Fuel 69er, Pacestar triple compound on the back and Trailstar triple compound on the front. These are both 2.4", of course.
Now, I've only been out with them twice but both times my overriding impression was how draggy they felt. To be fair, I have to say that most geared bikes feel draggy to me now, and FS ones doubly so, but now I really do think that for rear use (for anything but gravity assisted stuff) a Hans Dampf is overkill. The front was impressive on wet rock and greasy roots, not so much in mud, and the rear gripped well on rocky rooty climbs but just felt as if it was draining all my energy.

They felt like having 42a High Rollers front and rear - confidence inspiring when you point them downhill, but getting them back up again..........
About 22psi front and 25 rear - they come up pretty big too, a genuine 2.40" across the shoulder studs (on Halo Freedom rim) and diameters of around 27.2" and 29.4". About the same size carcass as a Nobby Nic then, but the slightly higher studs and squarer shoulders make them seem bigger.

I'll be interested to see how the On-One tyres perform, to be honest. They're made by Maxxis, so I can't see them being rubbish.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Thanks for that. I was hoping that being lighter than my single ply DH Minion / High Roller combo they would make my bike feel a bit more sprightly (although as its an SX Trail, there's only so much I can do).

On the other hand, I do value grip over anything else...I tried some non black chilli Rubber Queens and hated them. They made me realise just how confidence inspring Maxxis tyres are.

I thought about Nobby Nics, but think they may be a tad lightweight. I'm more worried about grip and getting down the hill than I am up it. I also muck about on jumps and drops etc. In looking fir the holy frail I think...something that's quite light, that won't puncture at the first sign of a rock, that grips in most conditions (I only chnage my tyres when they're worn) but rolls quite well.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:12 pm 
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Andy R wrote:
Now, I've only been out with them twice but both times my overriding impression was how draggy they felt. To be fair, I have to say that most geared bikes feel draggy to me now, and FS ones doubly so, but now I really do think that for rear use (for anything but gravity assisted stuff) a Hans Dampf is overkill. The front was impressive on wet rock and greasy roots, not so much in mud, and the rear gripped well on rocky rooty climbs but just felt as if it was draining all my energy.
Ahhhhhh, cråp. Bought a pair on sale last autumn, for my training/play bike. Not used them yet (been on studs all winter) Sounds like i'll get plenty of training........ Least there is no way they can be as bad as the highrollers i took off!


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