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 Post subject: 98+ BoTM rule discussion
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:21 pm 
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We've always been using the same rules as the ->97 BoTM, but a suggestion from cyfa2809 got me thinking that it might be time to review the rules a bit, at least as far as the 98+ BoTM is concerned.

As it stands now :

Quote:
1 ) Please enter your bicycle in the correct BoTM, i.e. no mtbs in rBoTM and vice versa.
2 ) Keep all comments and criticism constructive, avoid personal attacks.
3 ) It is strongly suggested all bikes are placed in the reader's bikes section prior to entry into BoTM. In this way a bike can under go a more gentle critique prior to the spotlight and interest of BoTM. More detail and extra pictures can be added here.
4 ) If you aren't prepared that your bike undergo criticism as part of BoTM don't enter it. We have many 1000s of views on this thread in a month - make sure both you and your bike are ready!
5 ) Don't register 15 extra users to vote for your own bike and for trolling purposes. This will result in a ban from retrobike.
6 ) Bike must be complete.
7 ) Bike must be currently owned by site member / nominee. If the bike is sold prior to or during the contest it will become ineligible.
8 ) Two pictures per bike only.
9 ) One bike per user per month - don't be greedy.
10 ) Judges decision is final.
11 ) If a bike wins BoTM it cannot be re-entered in any poll by the same owner. If it is sold any re-entry is strictly at the judges discretion.
12 ) Bikes can only be entered once in a normal month and once in a special month. That is you can enter any bike TWICE (unless it wins in which case it cannot be entered again - see rule 11).
13 ) Don't take it too seriously
14 ) Please ensure the frame (and ideally components) is vintage/retro/classic (certain special month excepted).
15 ) The MTB BoTM winners from April 2010 onwards will be featured in MBR Magazine. The winner will receive a years subscription to the magazine also 8) !
16 ) All polls end at 23:59.59 UK time (GMT or BST) on the last day of the month.


Most of these make sense, but :

Rule #14 needs to be rewritten at least. "Please ensure the frame (and ideally components) is made AFTER 1997" would be better.
IMO this rule isn't really needed at all. If the bike is from before 1998, people would be entering it in the retro BoTM.
I also feel that rule #1 covers this subject already.

Rule #15 doesn't apply. The winners don't get featured and there is no prize, just a Image badge. No idea if there will ever be prizes, that's not my call unless I decide to pay for them myself.

I can't guarantee #16. Sometimes I really can't stay up until midnight UK time, in which case it'll be an hour earlier. I'll always announce that at least 24 hours before I close the nominations, so you know how long you still have.

-----

Now the main topic I'd like to discuss is rule #12.

As Cyfa suggested, it may be a good idea to allow bikes to enter more than twice. Modern bikes here evolve more. Even when we reckon we're done changing things, a few months later we still get the urge to change just about everything.
Some start out with a stock bike, and then modify that completely. Others start with a custom frame and try several builds around that.
I think that 98+ owners tend to modify their bikes more often because we're not that fussed about catalogue spec or period correctness here.

As such, I suggest that we modify the rule a bit.
Not too sure on the exact wording, but I'm thinking along the lines of only entering it twice before serious modifications were done to it. Or "The bike needs to have undergone serious modifications between the last 3 entries" or something like that.
I'm pretty sure a native English speaker will come up with better wording than me.

If you enter it in a "normal month" and it has been entered in one before, include a link to the old picture so people can say if it looks different enough or not. Same with the special months. Or something to that extent.

Discuss ...


Last edited by Raging_Bulls on Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:36 pm 
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I see no reason why a bike can not be entered more than twice for whatever reason...even if it is exactly the same as it was last time it was entered. Many votes are close call, why eliminate great builds just because they have been entered before?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:53 pm 
retrobike rider
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Harryburgundy wrote:
I see no reason why a bike can not be entered more than twice for whatever reason...even if it is exactly the same as it was last time it was entered. Many votes are close call, why eliminate great builds just because they have been entered before?


The rule is there, in my opinion, to stop people just posting it up month after month after month after month after month.....
or in fact 10 people just posting their bike up month after month so effectively having the same poll. maybe if they bothered with a different picture.

How about something like: 'Fair Entry Policy'
- Normal month (anything goes) only entered once unless major changes, not just something like your grips, pedals, tyres have changed. But the 'look' of it has changed a lot. Judge decides if it gets to the poll. aka 'Fair Entry Policy'
- Special month. Enter as many as you like, it's the theme that counts after all. aka 'Unlimited Entry'


I'd also like to
#2 enhance to include,
Voters - Please comment and criticise, backing up why you think.
Entrees (?) - Don't take it personally. (merging rule #4)

#3 make it mandatory (i.e. you have to post the bike, with details, up in Readers Bike) preferably with a link.

#16 sounds fine. You can see that time and date of the entry. So just take it up till then. Any posted after are not entered. It's not about the thread being closed. Just add, poll will be placed up sometime after :)

#13 should be emphasised :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:39 pm 
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As FluffyChicken says, we must avoid seeing the exact same bike being entered time and time again.

I like your idea for the fair entry policy. However "unlimited entry" in special months could be dangerous. The Europe special already had 16 participants.
Having some choice is good, but many people won't vote if they have to choose between too many bikes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:30 pm 
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Raging_Bulls wrote:
As FluffyChicken says, we must avoid seeing the exact same bike being entered time and time again.



I agree in principle but we are all pretty much adults here and I doubt anyone would re-enter their bike month on month, give our members a little more credit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:13 pm 
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I'm surprised that this one barely gets replies.

Either way, I re-wrote a few things and changed the order a bit to make it all a bit more comprehensive (I hope).

So far we have :

1 ) Please enter your bicycle in the correct BoTM, i.e. no ->1997 bikes in the 98+ BoTM and vice versa.
2 ) Keep all comments and criticism constructive, avoid personal attacks.
3 ) It is strongly suggested all bikes are placed in the reader's bikes section prior to entry into BoTM and that a link to the bike's topic there is provided upon submission.
In this way a bike can under go a more gentle critique prior to the spotlight and interest of BoTM.
4 ) If you aren't prepared that your bike undergo criticism as part of BoTM, don't enter it.
5 ) Voters are encouraged to explain their choice and why other bikes didn't make it. Keep #2 in mind though.
6 ) Don't register 15 extra users to vote for your own bike and for trolling purposes. This will result in a ban from retrobike.
7 ) Bike must be complete, both in real life and in the pictures. "Complete" means that pictures without chain or pedals will NOT be accepted.
8 ) Bike must be currently owned by site member / nominee. If the bike is sold prior to or during the contest it will become ineligible.
9 ) Two pictures per bike only. If both pictures feature the entire bike, the top one will be used in the poll.
10 ) One bike per user per competition - don't be greedy.
11 ) If a bike wins BoTM it cannot be re-entered in any poll by the same owner. If it is sold any re-entry is strictly at the judges discretion.
12 ) Bikes can be entered several times, as long as the owner provides proof that the bike has undergone serious modifications in the last 3 entries (unless it wins, in which case it cannot be entered again - see rule 11).
"Serious modifications" would be a repaint, restoration or different 'look'. When in doubt, either the organizer or the forum's admin will make a decision.
13 ) Judges decision is final.
14 ) All polls end at 23:59.59 UK time (GMT or BST) on the last day of the month, unless the organizer states otherwise. You'll have ample warning when the deadline for submissions approaches.
15 ) the most important rule : Don't take it too seriously



Discuss, and feel free to point out any grammar-related or other linguistic errors.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:07 am 
Gold Trader / rb Rider / Special
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Yeah sorry, i looked in quick an couldnt get my head around it for some reason. Unsticky it should get some more hits.
Dont take it too seriously works for me. Constructive criticism is good, I'd say if people wanted to say something possibly deemed 'negative', back it up with good cause and how it can be changed or how its negative to that person. (I.e none of 'your bike is rubbish', but we know thats not really going to happen).

I would like to see more modern looking bikes. Maybe its just me, and i know this IS retrobike, but a lot of the bikes seem to hark back to retro which i dont feel is in keeping with the section. Not that the bikes are bad dont get me wrong, its like they just missed out as 98/99 but went neo retro anyway. Stick them in the retro throwback comp or neo-retro comp. Although that could really be just my perception.

Something like unlimited entry or similar would be good. To clear up what we are going to do about the 2 entry only thing. I guess maybe it should be 1 entry into a general (unlimited category) and one into a specific (like bikes from xx country).
But after that im not sure. 2 entries are good, but we all want more. Maybe it should be the 2 entries i mentioned above which if they happen to fall concurrently is fine, but otherwise limit it to 1 entry every 4 months?
Does that make sense? (And i say 4 months as = 2 comps).

I dunno, ramble ramble.

Asking voters to also reply on the thread would be nice, see if we can get some more interest that way also as have seen more voters than comments.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:37 pm 
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It depends what you mean by 'bike'. I wonder whether what it was intended to mean was 'build'. There might be a fantastic frame, but it doesn't win because of flaws in the build. If it was then given a different build, would it still be the same 'bike' because it still had the same frame? Maybe, but it wouldn't be the same build. I think you shouldn't be allowed to enter the same build repeatedly, but I don't see why you shouldn't enter a new build on a frame that had been entered before.

Needless to say, the judges' decision would be final on what constituted a different build from before and what didn't.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:37 pm 
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Keep rule 15 and chuck the rest!
Just remember, if it ain't steel, it ain't going to get my vote. :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:18 pm 
Gold Trader / rb Rider / Special
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I think ban suburbanreuben as i dont have any steel bikes.


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