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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:54 am 
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Dave_H wrote:
Reynolds don't seem to agree with this.

http://reynoldstechnology.biz/faqs/welding_joining/1


on 853 we do recommend that gear fittings etc are silver soldered onto the tubes).


I read that as it is ok to TIG the tubes but small parts like the gear stops are best silver soldered. :? :?: :?: :? :?:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:00 am 
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Dave_H wrote:
suburbanreuben wrote:
Nice idea. Just one problem.
Fillet brazing is not the ideal way to join 853. It doesn't generate enough heat to strengthen the joint in the same way that tig does.


Reynolds don't seem to agree with this.

http://reynoldstechnology.biz/faqs/welding_joining/1


You need to read a little further;
http://reynoldstechnology.biz/faqs/materials/4

Your link only states that 853 can be brazed.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:10 am 
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02gf74 wrote:
Dave_H wrote:
Reynolds don't seem to agree with this.

http://reynoldstechnology.biz/faqs/welding_joining/1


on 853 we do recommend that gear fittings etc are silver soldered onto the tubes).


I read that as it is ok to TIG the tubes but small parts like the gear stops are best silver soldered. :? :?: :?: :? :?:


853 can be brazed, but the joints are stronger when tigged. Most frame builders will silver solder the non-structural fittings on steel.

I'm not saying it's wrong to fillet braze 853; it's just that it doesn't make use of one of it's much heralded special properties.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:11 am 
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suburbanreuben wrote:
Your link only states that 853 can be brazed.


So there's no problem and no need for faux fillets, right?

suburbanreuben wrote:
I'm not saying it's wrong to fillet braze 853; it's just that it doesn't make use of one of it's much heralded special properties.


But that is what you said.


Last edited by Dave_H on Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:15 am 
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^^^ no problem at all .... although from what is being said TIG would be stronger - no data is provided how much stronger.

I reckom it is unlikely the the frame being made by D Yates will fall apart because it was soldered instead of Tigged.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:15 am 
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Dave_H wrote:
suburbanreuben wrote:
Your link only states that 853 can be brazed.


So there's no problem and no need for faux fillets, right?

No need for faux fillets. That was my fuzzy head. :oops:
:lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:18 am 
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02gf74 wrote:
I reckom it is unlikely the the frame being made by D Yates will fall apart because it was soldered instead of Tigged.


And I guess that comes down to the point of a custom made frame. Chances are the things that drove the choices are the Dave Yates and 853 stickers. Everything else are just minor options!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:25 pm 
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Location: No brakes? Way to commit soldier.
Quick Andy, call Dave and tell him that some bloke on the internet says he's doing it wrong!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:28 pm 
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Russell wrote:
Quick Andy, call Dave and tell him that some bloke on the internet says he's doing it wrong!

Now that would just be plain cheeky!
Instead, why not give him a call and tell him what you want the bike to do, how long yer big toe is etc, and see what he suggests? There may be other tubesets more suitable, and with his years of experience, he would know. Just to go to him with a spec of "853 and fillet brazed " is a waste of his talents.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:54 pm 
Moderator /Lincs, E & S Yorks Deputy AEC
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I knew that fillet brazed 853 would cause a stir!

I knew I wanted 853

I was undecided on lugged or brazed, or welded

Dave is the most local frame builder to me, less than an hour in the car so it's easy to pop in and discuss things with him & his reputation is second to none

I also discussed different materials, but kept coming back to 853

I asked Dave if there was a performance difference between the options, he said there was none.

So I went for fillet brazed

I'm guessing that in the 17 or so years that 853 has been around Dave will have worked with it in similar applications and knows what will work & what will not

He's a straight talking no nonsense fella & he doesn't take on jobs he doesn't want to take on. He's a firm believer in keep it simple, don't complicate it & don't add crap you don't really need.

eg: I did ask about a ring reinforced bottom bracket shell, as I'd had one on a previous bike & thought it a neat touch. His answer was 'Ever seen a BB shell fail there?'. Point taken, no ring reinforced BB shell for me.

I also asked about crud catcher mounts. He proceeded to show me a Dekerf frame a customer had left with him as he felt it too expensive to repair. It had crud catcher mounts & had folded right on the uppermost mount, which is right where the internal butting ends. Point taken Dave.

It's only the front end that's 853, the rear end is Columbus tubing (can't remember which variety) as it's better used in that application. Shame as I did want full 853, but Dave assures me that there is no benefit to full 853, barring lining his pocket with more of my hard earned cash.


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