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decisions decisions! what model of xtr?!
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=192020

Author:  jonnyboy666 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  decisions decisions! what model of xtr?!

just curious about opinions on modern xtr.

as some of you know i am having a custom frame built, see here,

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... highlight=

i am in the process of deciding what to build it with, most is already decided but the thing i am struggling with is the xtr connection :oops:

i don't like sram and i never will so defo want xtr parts, but only where needed as i want to do the usual british where possible thing so what i need to decide on is front and rear mech and 9 or 10 speed.

my thinking is this, all my modern stuff is 9 speed so it makes sense from that point of view to have 9 speed, that said it's gonna be a bike that is built and left alone so if it was 10 speed then that's fine so compatibility with my other bikes isn't an issue.

also i know 9 speed and i know what gears i use regularly, if i went 10 speed i'd go double up front with a wider cassette at the back so i don't lose the climbing gears but this would take a certain amount of re-learning what gears work for me.

but frankly the main thing for me in this case is looks :oops: all the xtr mechs i have at the moment are m952 except for the front mech on the clockwork which is m960 i think (without checking), i definitely want matching mechs and i really like the look of the 9speed mechs with the big 'X' on them but obviously if i go 10 speed i then have to have the 10 speed mechs which in my opinion aren't as nice looking.

so opinions on whether 10 speed is worth it and also opinions on looks aswel would be good.

come on chuck your 2p's worth! :oops: :D

and here's some pics of the mechs to help you decide.

Attachments:
xtr-m971.jpg
xtr-m971.jpg [ 10.29 KiB | Viewed 641 times ]
xtr-fd-m971-front-derailleur.jpg
xtr-fd-m971-front-derailleur.jpg [ 19.35 KiB | Viewed 641 times ]
xtr-RD-M980.jpg
xtr-RD-M980.jpg [ 88.54 KiB | Viewed 641 times ]
Shimano-XTR-M986.jpg
Shimano-XTR-M986.jpg [ 18.4 KiB | Viewed 641 times ]

Author:  paininthe [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:08 pm ]
Post subject: 

Possibly a bit older than you are looking at but 9speed

With thanks to mombat

Image

The touch and feel of these is nearly as nice as m900

Author:  jonnyboy666 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:30 pm ]
Post subject: 

but that's the stuff i already use (mechs wise) and this is for a brand new custom build so i want to use the more modern stuff. also i never subscribed to the octalink stuff.

Author:  Harryburgundy [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:22 pm ]
Post subject: 

I am building a 'modern' with M970/5 which I like...but not the rear mech. I will use M810 SS which I think is a great mech (you may not be able to use SS for two rings up front but it comes in gs as well)

Author:  tintin40 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:27 pm ]
Post subject: 

I always like the shadow XTR mech

Author:  02gf74 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:52 pm ]
Post subject: 

shadow XTR mech with carbon cage.

dunno about 10 speed - I am opposing it as I want my components to be changeable (I am totally 9 speed) .... but in practise having 1 bike 10 speed isn't going to matter. If you do the sums, the 2 ring/10 speed set up leaves you with a smaller range if gears and since I am pushing on a buit in years, that was one reason I resisted .... but what I've been told is that you just change your riding style to cope (the loss of the high gears does not botther me as I am not some mad max downhiller so hardly ever use the big outer ring off road).

and what is wrong with SRAM - the shifters, not the grip shift. It shifts as well as shimano.

Author:  stevec1975 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:53 pm ]
Post subject: 

I've just finished my Scott Scale with the new XTR M985 groupset and I must say it looks the bomb (the groupset that is) I have had all versions of XTR from M900 and the new stuff is seriously good, light, works well etc.

Author:  cyfa2809 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:12 pm ]
Post subject: 

M960

or
Deore or XT

Author:  02gf74 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:21 pm ]
Post subject: 

cyfa2809 wrote:
M960


the chainset looks really great on that one but when you come to replace rings, you wished you went for a more standard one (it has usual BCD for outer and middle rings)

Author:  S-M [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:22 pm ]
Post subject: 

IIRC XTR is going 11 speed later this year, so expect the price of the 10 speed stuff to maybe drop down in price?

Author:  Andy B [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:01 pm ]
Post subject: 

The new XTR that has the clutch system to stop chain slap, you wouldn't want to mess up the paintwork with chain slap or have a nasty looking chainstay protector on this bike would you?

Author:  Andy B [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:01 pm ]
Post subject: 

S-M wrote:
IIRC XTR is going 11 speed later this year, so expect the price of the 10 speed stuff to maybe drop down in price?
2015 so I hear for 11 speed XTR

Author:  cyfa2809 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:09 pm ]
Post subject: 

02gf74 wrote:
cyfa2809 wrote:
M960


the chainset looks really great on that one but when you come to replace rings, you wished you went for a more standard one (it has usual BCD for outer and middle rings)


Oh something to think about then. Dont middlburn and the like do rings for them though?

Author:  jonnyboy666 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:18 pm ]
Post subject: 

02gf74 wrote:
shadow XTR mech with carbon cage.

dunno about 10 speed - I am opposing it as I want my components to be changeable (I am totally 9 speed) .... but in practise having 1 bike 10 speed isn't going to matter. If you do the sums, the 2 ring/10 speed set up leaves you with a smaller range if gears and since I am pushing on a buit in years, that was one reason I resisted .... but what I've been told is that you just change your riding style to cope (the loss of the high gears does not botther me as I am not some mad max downhiller so hardly ever use the big outer ring off road).

and what is wrong with SRAM - the shifters, not the grip shift. It shifts as well as shimano.


for what this bike will be used for i could lose the granny ring as where i live i don't really use it that often and with a 10speed i could get a 36t( :shock:) for the top sprocket giving me the get out of trouble gear.

with regards to sram, no, never. i used to work in the trade, did 12 years punishment, there are certain brands/parts i simply will not use and sram gears and brakes are them. can't get spares (quickly) and what you can get is a replacement unit as opposed to an individual small part, the mechs don't last and the shifters are a pain to stick a cable in to. the brakes bind/rub and need constant bleeding as wel as ripping through pads.

(having said that for a laugh i have built my alpinestars with esp9.0sl gripshit, but i am expecting the mech to explode any minute now!)

no one will ever convince me otherwise about sram though.

that said i'd like this thread not to turn into the singletrack world sram v shimano debate, i'm using xtr and that's that!! :lol:

so any thoughts on longevity of 10 speed? and like i said out of the options above which do you prefer the looks of?

:D

Author:  jonnyboy666 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:18 pm ]
Post subject: 

oh and the chainset will be middleburn or possibly royce so forget about xtr there. :wink:

Author:  cyfa2809 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:28 pm ]
Post subject: 

Not experienced 10 speed but thinner chain isnt going to last as long?

Author:  brocklanders023 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:25 pm ]
Post subject: 

On the 10sp..... I treated my 5 to a new groupo and so far have not had any problems. Bit tricky to set up perfectly though and not sure it makes that much difference.

On the XTR..... I ran M97X (like in the pictures) from 2007 until last year and it was great. Didn't have to replace any parts. You've not really mentioned shifters but my M97X one's were simply the best I've ever had, including thumbies. Lovely action, bullet proof, looked ace and were very light. When I've got the cash I'll be swapping my new 10sp SLX shifters for 10sp XTR. Not too fussed with the other bits. The XTR rm was shadow and I miss it now I've gone back to normal.

Author:  jonnyboy666 [ Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:10 am ]
Post subject: 

i'll will more than likely run the matching shifters to the mechs, defo rapid fire but obviously 9 or 10 speed depending which i go for.

the frame is due to be finished in time for mayhem so i am hoping to slowly collect the parts in advance of the frame being finished. worst case i'll rip some bits from the clockwork (i'm using the fork anyway but will be repainted) but i'd prefer to ride it right from the go as it will be.

:D

Author:  Fudd [ Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:35 pm ]
Post subject: 

I'm running 10sp M985 with an XT cassette and KMC chain on my Pace and its the slickest shifting I've ever experienced. The new rear mech with the clutch thingy is not just a gimmick either and the whole thing is a lot quieter than anything else as well. I never noticed how noisy other transmissions were until I fitted this 8) 8) 8) The Sram X9 10sp setup on my 907 feels like Deore level kit in comparison.


cyfa2809 wrote:
Not experienced 10 speed but thinner chain isnt going to last as long?


I've read that the plates are the same thickness, just moved slightly closer together, so there's no reason for it not to last longer, but the rings and cassette are slightly thinner so these will wear out quicker

Author:  dbmtb [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:41 pm ]
Post subject: 

9 speed Shadow XTR mech is extremely fragile. Saw loads of broken ones when I was in Shimano QC soon after they came out.

If you want to stay 9-speed and Shimano - then get the non-Shadow version if it has to be XTR. Otherwise XT version is fine and dandy.

The 9-speed M770 set-up I had and sold was extremely smooth and you won't get that smooth front shift with Middleburn rings. I'm on 9-speed X0 at the moment and love it.

Bottom bracket - the Pace ones with Enduro seals are very nice. Get the grease gun system and you can run thinner grease with lower friction. I have 2 punters out on these with no problems and run one myself. Middleburn X-type cranks are great as you can adjust preload like on XTR.
Slickshift rings shift well. Nearly as well as Shimano.

Chain. Do not buy Shimano. They wear so fast it's just unreal. SRAM 9 spd crossstep chain is very hardwearing.

M950-3 type front mech outperforms anything else ever made if you can find one.

Author:  jonnyboy666 [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:58 pm ]
Post subject: 

yeah, it's the shadow stuff i don't really like, i just prefer the more traditional shape rear mech. but i also sort of feel that i should go ten speed because i am building my ultimate bike and it should have the best/newest stuff.

with regards to middleburn, as far as i am concerned the shifting is good enough, don't get me wrong shimano have the r+d and shifting is awesome but i have never had any issues with middleburn (or raceface) and i tend to prefer the Sram chains myself, i'll probably run an xt cassette though.

thanks for the views though :)

Author:  02gf74 [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:28 pm ]
Post subject: 

Fudd wrote:

cyfa2809 wrote:
Not experienced 10 speed but thinner chain isnt going to last as long?


I've read that the plates are the same thickness, just moved slightly closer together, so there's no reason for it not to last longer, but the rings and cassette are slightly thinner so these will wear out quicker


the chain wears at the the roller/side plate interface - the side plates have indentz on whcih the rollers turn; 10 speed same size as 9 speed.

Image

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