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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:32 am 
Posh Mark
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elPedro666 wrote:
853 stays aren't available as far as I'm aware...


I am sure that Curtis offer a full 853 framed bike - stays and all :?

I meant 753 above ^^^ or did I mean 853 :?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:58 am 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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letmetalktomark wrote:
elPedro666 wrote:
853 stays aren't available as far as I'm aware...


I am sure that Curtis offer a full 853 framed bike - stays and all :?

I meant 753 above ^^^ or did I mean 853 :?


Seems they do, I must be out of date (again!)

However I just nicked this that seems to challenge the logic of using them :?

Quote:
Cotic say this:

"Reynolds are only offering their 853 stays in the same profiles and wall thickness as our cromoly stays so they wouldn't any lighter, just an awful lot stronger (when our cromoly rear end is perfectly strong enough) and an awful lot more expensive. For the moment, we'll stick with what we've got."


Also I don't think you can cold set 853, so the frame builder needs to get Reynolds to provide them in the correct shape already and can't align the rear triangle in house. This might be a total irrelevance, but it seems like a bad thing...

Don't actually know what the stays are on my 853 Sanderson Life, would quite like to find out! :oops: Website just states 'heat treated'.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:37 pm 
retrobike rider
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elPedro666 wrote:
Also I don't think you can cold set 853, so the frame builder needs to get Reynolds to provide them in the correct shape already and can't align the rear triangle in house. This might be a total irrelevance, but it seems like a bad thing...

Yes, this is why Reynolds recommended 725 stays for factory-built 853 frames. The Hot had 853 stays, but that requires slower methods of working.

Any weld is going to warp when it cools from such high temperatures. Karl Strong said his method for 853 stays entails knowing from experience how much a given weld distorts.
So he jigs the joint crooked but in the opposite direction, so that the distortion brings it back straight and he doesn't need any cold setting.
That must necessitate very precise and consistent welding practices, which obviously requires special skill and care that may not be feasible in a factory.

As far as I am aware, True Temper OX Platinum and Columbus Life have similar characteristics to Reynolds 853.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:48 pm 
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As does Dedacciai 18MCDV HT, but that was available for every pipe on the bike.
I have a theory that 853's popularity is due solely to the exchange rate making it cheaper than the competition. I don't think it's any better than OX platinum or 18MCDV


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:03 am 
98+ BoTM Winner / Gold Trader
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My Curtlo 29er Mountaineer is built with Ox Platinum, and the ride is very smooth. I've been riding the Curtlo a lot this winter including rides over 50km off-road. And though I usually do a lot of my longer rides suspended I've not been uncomfortable-.

It was custom built for someone other than me so the finer points of the tubeset used for the front triangle and the stays is lost on me. But since it has the optional curved "banana" seatstays the wisdom in this thread tells me that is too involved for the 853like variety.

But this bike has big wheels, fillet brazed skinny tubes and the banana stays plus a long titanium layback post; it is not smooth by coincidence 8) So I don't know how much I can attribute to the tubeset. YMMV

Enjoy!!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:19 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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IbocProSX
I want pics of this - it sounds gorgeous! 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:36 pm 
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thanks for your opinions about Platinum OX frames. Anyone have an idea what's the weight of a 2003 Kona Explosif frame in 18" ?

Would like to use 140 disc at the rear of that Explosif, but have a bit of concern about the disc tab installation without a strout in the triangle - could it be a problem with flex rear stay or even to much stress for it ? Notice that most of modern disc'd steelframes does have some kind of enforcement stays.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:15 am 
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magas wrote:
thanks for your opinions about Platinum OX frames. Anyone have an idea what's the weight of a 2003 Kona Explosif frame in 18" ?

Would like to use 140 disc at the rear of that Explosif, but have a bit of concern about the disc tab installation without a strout in the triangle - could it be a problem with flex rear stay or even to much stress for it ? Notice that most of modern disc'd steelframes does have some kind of enforcement stays.


I wouldn't worry about having no disc re-inforcement. Neither of my bikes has one, and 140mm isn't going to cause too much stress. I think people have just got used to seeing them and expect them to be there, so the designer doesn't disappoint them.
I can understand fitting one when retro-fitting a disc tab, just in case, but a bike designed for discs, especially XC, shouldn't really need one.


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