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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:51 am 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:10 pm
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Location: Skipton
Raging_Bulls wrote:
Same here, my rigid is slightly over 29lbs. However it goes uphill just as fast as my modern 26lbs hardtail does with the fork on lockout.
Actually the rigid is faster if I don't use the hardtail's lockout.

So the question is : Is it the weight that's slowing you down on climbs or is it the suspension?


Prob both.
My Orange 5 weighs 32lbs and ride it on everything I used to have a Giant Reign 6" travel weighing 36lbs and just got used to the weight so when I got the 5 it did make the climbs easier.
Beavis on here rides a Marin wolfridge at 36lbs, finds it a bit of a struggle on some of the bigger hills.
Brocklanders rides a 5 at about 29lbs.

You'll find that a hardtial will always climb better than a full sus cos you can put the power down better as the full sus soakes some of that power in its travel.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:05 pm 
retrobike rider
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giant-one wrote:
You'll find that a hardtial will always climb better than a full sus cos you can put the power down better as the full sus soakes some of that power in its travel.


Well - that's a whole new debate - full-suss perhaps grips better - Pro_pedal is a big plus etc......

Granted - there is a balance to be struck.

I'm waiting to ride Wadsy's sub-20lb full susser :)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:47 pm
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Location: North East
The other thing to think about is your own weight, if your 6'6" and weigh 20 stone then maybe a light weight bike is a step too far.

I'm 5'6" and weigh in at 12st (there or there abouts :wink: ) meaning a small frame to start with.
Also I'm just not heavy enough to exert the kind of forces needed to break the top end light weight stuff, cack handed enough but not heavy enough.

I seem to remember an article in MBUK from one of the then pro's (Barrie Clarke possibly) saying how when in training he would try to match his own weight loss with the bikes.
If he lost 4lbs he would reward himself with lighter (new and shiny more like) bike components as it was the total combined weight that makes the difference.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:52 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:13 pm
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Location: Skipton
giant-one wrote:
Raging_Bulls wrote:
Same here, my rigid is slightly over 29lbs. However it goes uphill just as fast as my modern 26lbs hardtail does with the fork on lockout.
Actually the rigid is faster if I don't use the hardtail's lockout.

So the question is : Is it the weight that's slowing you down on climbs or is it the suspension?


Prob both.
My Orange 5 weighs 32lbs and ride it on everything I used to have a Giant Reign 6" travel weighing 36lbs and just got used to the weight so when I got the 5 it did make the climbs easier.
Beavis on here rides a Marin wolfridge at 36lbs, finds it a bit of a struggle on some of the bigger hills.
Brocklanders rides a 5 at about 29lbs.

You'll find that a hardtial will always climb better than a full sus cos you can put the power down better as the full sus soakes some of that power in its travel.



Yep, use my 5 for everything (lots of XC) and have no problem with it at about 28/29lbs so 30lbs should be fine for an all rounder.

On the uphill question..... I find a hardtail climbs best when the trail's not too naughty but the 5 is best when going up the rough stuff. Pro Pedal defo helps.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:43 pm 
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My FSR is 26.5lbs with RC40 coil fork, Nobby Nic USTs and BETD rocker. Only concessions to weight are Monkey light bars and Hope hubs.

It's fine but I don't think I'd want it much heavier for climbing.....

What kit have you got on it that's pushing the scales down so hard?

And as for the climbing vs. hardtail debate - full suspension wins hands down when traction is an issue. Fireroad and tarmac climbs - hardtail wins even with propedal.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:03 pm
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Some full sussers win, not all, machines with higher anti squat tend to have better traction, but they also hve more pedal feedback. On lumpy, steep climbs in the lower gears, the kickback can really upset your rhythm.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:39 pm 
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I used to have a Spec' SX Trail that I used for big all-day rides. In "light" mode it was 34lb. Took some winching up hills but the traction was epic. The real limiting factor was the shape of it -- short, slack, a bit wandery at low speeds. With a lockdown fork on it worked better but tended to run out of BB height.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:58 pm 
retrobike rider
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Location: Woking
My 2010 19" Kona Hei Hei 100 is probably the closest comparison bike to yours. The build is: Fox F100 forks, full XT groupset, Mavic XC717 rims, Schwalbe Nobby Nics & Ritchey WCS finishing kit and weighs 26.8 lbs (inc pedals). So yours is a bit heavier but mine does have a lot of high-end kit.

SP


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:07 pm 
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Location: Costa-del-Oldham
Thanks for all the input.

Here is the spec of my tank

Frame - 2006 Kona King Kikapu 17"
Fork - Marzocchi Bomber Mx eta 120mm
Crankset - Shimano Deore 44,34,24
Brakes - Clarks Skeletal
Seatpost - Titec X-wing
Stem - Unknown
Bars - Bontrager Crowbar
Headset - Cane Creek s2
Front Mech - Sram X7
Rear Mech - Shimano Deore
Shifters - Shimano Deore
Rims - Sun RhynoLite with Deore Hub rear & Bontrager Maverick Asym front with Bontrager hub
Saddle - Charge Spoon
Cassette - Sram pg960
Pedals - Dmr V8
Tyres - Specialized Vertical & Bontrager Jones Acx both in 2.3

Image

I think the wheels are heavy & also the forks add a hell of a weight to the bike. I must admit I do like the coil & air damping tho so I might have to stick with them

I'm not a weight weenie by any standards but something just doesn't feel right at the moment.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:41 pm 
retrobike rider
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Location: Woking
The original build: http://www.klassickona.com/oldgold/2006/king_kikapu.htm has a claimed weight of 29.6lbs.

Your kit is perfectly good quality, so gains (aside from tyres and forks) will be relatively modest against say XT and snazzier finishing kit. You could be on a slippery slope trying to get the weight down and end up with a totally different build.... My advice would be strip it, put every component on the scales and then compare what you have to listings on the Weight Weenies website. Then work out weight savings at grams-per-pound and start on the most cost efficient things first.

SP


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