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 Post subject: Modern v Retro geometry
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:57 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:31 pm
Posts: 473
I have been comparing the top tube lenght and actual length and seat to bar length from my Boardman to my Dawes.

Surprisingly to me, they are both v similar, yet the boardman is much more sit up and beg (which I prefer).

The only difference I can tell is that due to the suspension fork the boardman's front is much higher.

So was it suspension that evolved teh current day mtbs into more relaxed riding position or is it something else?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:35 pm 
MacRetro rider
MacRetro rider

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:16 pm
Posts: 8658
New bikes tend toward a more play like approach and less of an XC race format. Suspension, wide bars, upright position lend themselves to aggressive riding, jumps etc. What a rider wants a bike to do decides the bikes design and set up. Suspension was created to allow us to ride a certain way and the geometry was set up to get the best from the suspension. Suspension in itself was not the reason bikes are now as they are, just a part of the package to achieve a certain goal.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:46 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
retrobike rider / Gold Trader

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:05 pm
Posts: 9245
I've been banging on about this for the last year since i put a longer fork on my restomod Fat Chance. 90's bikes were low at the front and had steep geometry, modern bikes are high and slack. Take one of those old bikes and fit a longer fork and it becomes higher and slacker. Ah, but it upsets the handling everyone shouts. Well yes, of course it does. Tell me, do you see modern trail bikes with zero rise 150mm stems and narrow bars? No.
So, go and fit a short stem and wide bars to your old bike with longer fork and viola! You now have a classic frame with a modern riding position and modern handling. No more arse in the air, stiff necks and bad backs.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:49 pm 
MacRetro rider
MacRetro rider

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:16 pm
Posts: 8658
He's right you know allthough it stuffs up aesthetics which is surprising the lack of interest in that from Dr S but hey ho :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:56 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
retrobike rider / Gold Trader

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:05 pm
Posts: 9245
It doesnt have to stuff up the aesthetics though Velo with a little effort. There are plenty of nice looking modern steel hardtails out there. You can take that oldskool frame and fit carefully selected modern parts and end up with a sweet looking bike. Forks can be colour matched and have retro-esque decals fitted, stems and bars can be stripped and polished back to silver, or anodized to match the rest of the bike too.

Anything can be made to look good with some thought (someone is going to suggest that i try and make a Raleigh Activator look coll now arn't they :roll: )


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:28 pm 
Gold Trader / rb Rider / Special
Gold Trader / rb Rider / Special
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:26 am
Posts: 16165
Location: Rurally close.
This is a good thread.

Your input is a good eye opener Dr.S.

And raleigh activators do look cool.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:52 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 4:18 pm
Posts: 2336
Although modern bikes are also pretty low to the ground, which a long-forked retro isn't. Within sensible limits it's not a major issue, though.

I'm toying with trying out a -1 degree headset in an oldish (cusp of retro) bike, could be interesting ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:31 pm 
Dirt Disciple
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:20 am
Posts: 36
Location: Reading, Berkshire
cyfa2809 wrote:
This is a good thread.

Your input is a good eye opener Dr.S.

And raleigh activators do look cool.


I've got an almost mint Raleigh Activator that I want to get rid of if you want to try?! :oops:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:51 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:03 pm
Posts: 107
Modern bikes still often retain a steepish seat angle though, even with the long forks. This places your weight in a better position. Many long travel hardtails have 72-73 seat degree angles.

Stick a 150mm fork on your frame that had a 73 SA with a 80mm fork, and you could be sat too far behind the bottom bracket. This was the problem with my Zaskar LE from 1996 when I fit a 125mm Psylo to it - just wasn't weighted right.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:20 pm 
MacRetro rider
MacRetro rider

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:16 pm
Posts: 8658
Try a zero layback seat post with the seat in a forward position and an intermediate length stem to move your weight forward and over the forks. You effectively change the geometry of the ride position to counter the long forks change of the frames geometry.


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