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 Post subject: Ad-Lib
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:25 pm 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:09 am
Posts: 235
Location: Hull, Humberside
I say, I meant that as an ad-lib comment, without going into too much detail. ie: The opposite of HARD: SOFTER (or SOFT)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:28 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:03 pm
Posts: 107
But you can set the suspension up to give full travel over larger hits, yet remain firm when pedalling - this is what the damping is for.


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 Post subject: It's depends
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:52 pm 
Old School Hero
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Location: Hull, Humberside
However manufacturers put it into words, we have our own definitions, and uses for air suspension adjustability:
i) PRELOAD
ii) REBOUND &
iii) LOCKOUT/PRO-PEDAL.

I'd describe it:
i) Initial preload
ii) Rebound quickness
iii) Lockout
(Switch style on rear suspension, not total lockout on pro-pedal)
(Knob style on front suspension, varying increments/scales of lockout)

I like small compromise, un-noticeable bob with a firm but not too hard suspension.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:03 am 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:03 pm
Posts: 107
But manufacturers do it in different ways. Take a Rockshox Motion Control fork with Floodgate adjust and dual air springs - you have dual air chambers which can be used to tune initial stroke sensitivity, a low speed compression damper which can be used to tame brake dave and bob; Flood gate adjust to set when the fork overcomes the compression damping, and two stage rebound adjust.

Of course in the end it is how you like it, but I'd experiment: there maybe a better set up which uses the suspension (and the traction you talk about) much more efficiently.


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 Post subject: Terrain?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:30 am 
Old School Hero
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Posts: 235
Location: Hull, Humberside
hedgehog wrote:
But manufacturers do it in different ways. Take a Rockshox Motion Control fork with Floodgate adjust and dual air springs - you have dual air chambers which can be used to tune initial stroke sensitivity, a low speed compression damper which can be used to tame brake dave and bob; Flood gate adjust to set when the fork overcomes the compression damping, and two stage rebound adjust.

Of course in the end it is how you like it, but I'd experiment: there maybe a better set up which uses the suspension (and the traction you talk about) much more efficiently.


Well, when the terrain changes, isn't it nice to have setup that you can easily remember how to make softer/harder/quicker/slower, etc.

OK not expecting any manufacturers to integrate air gauges and/or pumps, yes I've asked them, they all said they have no plans to do so.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:37 am 
MacRetro rider
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Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:56 pm
Posts: 2475
Location: A Fifer furth o' the Kingdom
FluffyChicken wrote:
Andy B wrote:

Sag should be set @ 30% on forks and shocks whilst sat on the bike in your riding gear...


Before or after breakfast ?


Yes, that's a very valid point.

Before breakfast I have neither had my breakfast nor had my morning dump so there is a variance in my weight depending on what time of day I ride my bike. Since my morning dump usually weighs more than my breakfast, going by how light I feel on my feet afterwards, I am at my lightest weight of the day. Unless of course I feel the urge for an afternoon dump prior to an afternoon snack. Which happens more frequently than not. The perils of a veggie, high fibre diet. :oops:

So I always adjust my forks and rear shock to take these variances into account. It's always a good idea to carry a shock pump with you, well at least in my case it is, just to be able to adjust them up or down if need be.
Like if you get caught short during a ride and have to do an al fresco dump.


















I took that too far didn't I?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:38 am 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:03 pm
Posts: 107
You can to an extent - the dampers as above. Many are detented, turn the dial to add compression damping. Or take away.

Or with RS Dual Position, or Talas, an adjusting travel system with auto spring rate compensator.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:38 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 4:18 pm
Posts: 2336
I'm sorry, but either you're measuring the sag wrong or you're measuring the air pressure wrong. There's no way on earth you'll get 25% sag out of that bike with 300psi in the rear shock unless you weigh the far side of 20 stone. I'm assuming that you don't weigh over 20 stone, of course. If you do, my apologies.

(Air pressure isn't preload, by the way, you're directly affecting the spring rate. The collar on a coil spring _is_ preload but doesn't affect the spring rate, which is a property inherent to the spring -- the only way to change it is to replace the spring).[/quote]


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 Post subject: Suits me.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:32 am 
Old School Hero
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Posts: 235
Location: Hull, Humberside
MikeD wrote:
I'm sorry, but either you're measuring the sag wrong or you're measuring the air pressure wrong. There's no way on earth you'll get 25% sag out of that bike with 300psi in the rear shock unless you weigh the far side of 20 stone. I'm assuming that you don't weigh over 20 stone, of course. If you do, my apologies.

(Air pressure isn't preload, by the way, you're directly affecting the spring rate. The collar on a coil spring _is_ preload but doesn't affect the spring rate, which is a property inherent to the spring -- the only way to change it is to replace the spring).
[/quote]

With rear PROPEDAL off I get just less then a 1cm. The fox sag guide, is probably right for most, I live somewhere a bit flat really, with few bumpy offroad downhills.

Well air pressure (sag), is the equivalent of PRELOAD.

Point being AIR shocks are more adjustable as don't change have to change parts, such as in the case of COIL shocks, change spring, elastomer, etc.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:13 am 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:03 pm
Posts: 107
Propedal has nothing to with sag.


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